So Auction philosophy thread.

Grab a cup of coffe and attend to the more simple things in life.
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Wil
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Wil »

Alibaster wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:20 am
I have reconsidered and simply propose making some high level weapons accessible through other means such as a rare drop on a boss or something. Let the market play out however it will but let those that would like to do something other then farm gold have a way to achieve the "prize".
Perhaps if there was some sort of anti-farming mechanism in place. You kill the boss once and the game rolls your chance of getting the rare drop, but whether you get it or not you're ineligible for another chance for 30 days.

Otherwise folks will just script-farm it like they do gold.
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Yuki »

I do think some quality of life items like the no resource cost to weapon deed for ED would be great assuming it’s automated and not something a GM actually has to manually change for each weapon.

I’d be more concerned if ancient weapons were just available for purchase though since a big part of the game is farming weapons for those random rolls. Unless they are exorbitantly priced, people will just skip investing in looted weapons and just go for the ancient weapon.
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Muolke
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Muolke »

Silent wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:47 am

I don't want to derail the thread, but perhaps some introspection regarding this statement would be useful. We can't fix a bubble by looking into it from within and specially if we don't see it. Reading what others talk about our bubble would surely help building a better shard. (and they don't talk about auctions prices hehe)
Back in 2007 and 2008 there were signs everywhere that there was a housing bubble. Many people saw all the issues but decided to ignore that because "housing is safe". Then we all know what happened.

The signs of trouble are everywhere but if the powers that be don't see it then it doesn't matter. Every indicator that i've followed over the last 4-5 years says player activity (overall) is down significantly. The price of just about everything is down considerably because of lower demand. The only items selling for more are the super end-game items. That's it.

It used to be almost impossible to solo a champ because there were so many players that before you know it there were 10 players there already. Now you can solo all the champs you want because...well...see above.
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Eremite
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Eremite »

My opinion is that the convenience items should be on a vendor stone, ideally for pretty exorbitant gold prices rather than ED as it's meant to remove gold from the economy. Pricing should reflect auction prices plus an additional percentage convenience fee since you don't have to wait for auctions and compete.

Examples:
* Infinite instrument
* Infinite bandage
* World Teleporter
* Gold Bag (hold only gold, zero weight)
* Gold Bag Bless Deed (Basically make it a BoH, but only for gold)
* Totem Slot (maybe? - not sure on this one)

Other items like Ancient weapons, rare deco items, mounts, etc should remain rare at auctions. The idea being that they offer only slight damage upgrades or simply aesthetics that you can show off with.

This keeps the auction event as part of the culture of the shard, but also makes some of the sought after items that unlock gameplay styles/options obtainable more reliably (but not more easily) obtained.

Essentially:
* Does this item change how you play or enjoy the game? -> Vendor Stone
* Is this aesthetic or not significantly effect gameplay? -> Auction Item

On a side note, if the very large bag holders are in a habit of buying items only to vendor at a higher price, setting certain targets to be account bound might be a solution. (Ancient weapons, etc) You still remove gold from the economy, but the item goes into the hands of someone who needs/will use it without just feeding more gold to the people who have an iron grip on the economy. (They will *hate* this change as they can't exploit people for gold anymore, so prepare for rage threads, lol)
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by arni »

so i cant afford high end stuff anyway but i like the idea of it been on a stone within reason.

yes put weapons on a stone but make the 4 stats random 58% so you could get 3 leechs plus dispel on a vicking sword. maybe get lighting, fire area poision area and hit lower attack on a war axe. atleast then the auction ones would still be worth bidding as as you see the stats but the stone ones come with a risk you get 4 58s but they might be bad ones
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Johnny Warren
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Johnny Warren »

Terrible idea putting weps on a stone. The stone should just be a couple of the "quality of life items" in the same vein that the BoHs are. Putting weapons and other things on there just reads to me as: "no need to hunt or explore the land. Just visit the stone." There has to be a reason to fight different monsters, fight bosses, explore. Otherwise it's just recall farm gold until u can buy the weapon. Not a good idea at all.
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Geriatric »

thats a good argument there johnny

doesnt even need to be the infinite instrument, could be a 50k charge instrument
or even buy big stacks of soaked bandages
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by arni »

Johnny Warren wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:43 pm
Terrible idea putting weps on a stone. The stone should just be a couple of the "quality of life items" in the same vein that the BoHs are. Putting weapons and other things on there just reads to me as: "no need to hunt or explore the land. Just visit the stone." There has to be a reason to fight different monsters, fight bosses, explore. Otherwise it's just recall farm gold until u can buy the weapon. Not a good idea at all.
thats all there doing now so no change there its either afk and regular farmers in wrong people just farming peerless or doom so nothing would alter no point in exploring now

so either stone or do like the library quests where donations of resources items add up
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Silent »

arni wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:19 pm

thats all there doing now so no change there its either afk and regular farmers in wrong people just farming peerless or doom so nothing would alter no point in exploring now

so either stone or do like the library quests where donations of resources items add up
Do not get lost in the arguments here fellas,

1) People farm gold all day because a) they are working so they can monitor a macro instead of playing b) there is a huge lack of new content (e.g. seasonal events - which is where you see vets doing something different)

2) What Johnny said is very true, we play a game while it has purpose, I like the hype of finding a 4x58 only to realise one of those hits is dispel. That is purpose, we continue the struggle. Why would anyone farm peerless boss for a weapon then? or by any reason?

3) the more "available" things are the worst it will get for gold farm because people who have everything don't really need anything. Would they crash EXEX or just abandon the shard?

Again, please think:
Silent wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:47 am
Are we really trying to fix something? Will the shard benefit from our daydreams? or is this discussion to one's favour only?
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Cerrera
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Cerrera »

In my case, no wish to fix auctions,(name says all) was just willing to express opinion, that i see why someone would want that and that, but that wouldn't be fair cause of that and that.Considering there was request to use topic for what its supposed to, decided to dislocate philosophy to different topic.
We already had confessions that some suggestions can be moment of weakness/disappointment for broken plans. Yes i agree, we are mostly playing something because of daily dose of dopamine. Btw... i remembered story about experiment with rats which had blocked dopamine receptors, they just sit in their corner, ate just when food was directly put in their mouth, they didn't had any motivation to move and do anything (not saying we are rats, but as carbon based lifeforms from one planet, we sharing many mechanisms) So i guess, most important is to have reachable goals (if dopamine is released for certain goal and you don't progress on that part, you get backlash) guessing am describing that terribly but ok :D
Btw recently caught myself on a thought, could it be rent seeking behavior, made suggestion and understood,that if that wouldn't problem for me, it would never come in my mind,so who knows, we all are made from same meat.Even if we are not thinking about everyone's good, we should always remember to not dig pit, where we can ourselves fall in. So yeah, just a bunch of thinks, interconnected, but i know for sure, i still don't see full picture. Ok, there are many much more what came in mind,could write and contemplate how to present it correctly for 5 more hours, but none will read a book here, so as those guys from Star wars sayin,when ends their talk. I said everything :D
Yes, Boss also had ideas, but didn't speak yet.
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Geriatric »

i think what carrera is trying to say is
it's more rewarding when you've put in alot of hard work to finally reach that goal
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Johnny Warren
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Johnny Warren »

More rewarding when you've worked hard for a long time, years even... by the same measure, it also hurts even more when you realise, due to a change in playstyle by extreme pay to win player(s) that your goal, despite a year or more work, is now no longer obtainable. And if attitudes or rules don't change it is never attainable. Makes you want to simply quit and work on a goal somewhere else that is at least attainable... I think Deckard was perhaps the smartest amongst us vets... we all anticipated what was coming, rumours started swirling (turned out to be true), we all saw the writing on the wall, he just acted on it instantly, and is probably better off for it.... I hope he is well, this place meant a lot to him.

I hope that attitudes shift by the next auction. But I am not holding my breath, a sad decision will be thrust upon me, after over 14 years, if the last 2 auction cycles are repeated again...

I also think Muolke's statement above is pretty accurate. Player activity and interest is down. UO is dying a slow death (which makes me seriously question people pouring thousands of euros into a 30 year old game with a small community even - donate to support the server and colibris work, that's fine, but we all know there's a difference between support and pay to win) and as such, so is our server. If you look at the demographic the average age here would be over 40, we are retro gamers on a dying platform. Colibri does a good job keeping the lights on here, but development is stagnant (hoping that the scoped GM abilities brings some more interest). When we talk prices muolke is spot on. There used to be a market for early and mid game items, there isn't any more (I know I used to make money in that market). Even recently there was a leveling out of auction items, they were flattening after years of rising, hitting that sweet spot (until last 2 auctions where we saw 720m ATH and in Dec 430+m +20 spend points, the weakest upgrade deed). There no longer is a market in the early and mid game. If the current trend of only large donators can play at auctions (which let's be honest are the only thing most of us vets play for once youre in the late endgame) I foresee that slow death, sadly, speeding up.

For me, the new paradigm, which is the only way to think about what's happening now, will simply expediate the decline of our great community. I hope I am wrong. I hope that the extreme p2wers think long and hard about their actions moving forward. This was not unanticipated once we saw the crash of ED prices... no amount of THs are worth anything on an offline server... or a server with 30 players....

#FreeTheHues
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Cerrera
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Cerrera »

Geriatric wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:26 pm
i think what carrera is trying to say is
it's more rewarding when you've put in alot of hard work to finally reach that goal
I meant, you should see progress, in reaching a goal. And always have another one in front, to not get that backlash.
Btw.. belt quest is great example for that, even your goal is black belt, and some players may be annoyed that you cannot do final quest at beginning, on every step they see progress.

and edit as quote on other post: Btw.. saying ptw wouldn't be exactly correct, ptw faster has some difference, and its good for everyone imo..
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Silent »

Johnny Warren wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:39 am
...no amount of THs are worth anything on an offline server... or a server with 30 players....
This is the most concerning part. Muolke is right today has he was right 4 years ago or even more. The auction fix won't solve the major issue here, the problem exists and will continue. For the last 6 years ? (I've even lost track of time so maybe more?) nothing has happened to this shard. We have player run-events (my sincerest thanks to them) trying to create new excitement for players and trying to keep them on the shard. Other than what players are providing we have absolutely nothing. In fact, we have less today than what we had back in 2014 for example. This means that in 10 years, the shard is not going strong, it is "on-line" for whatever that is worth. Whatever is improving in the background (allegedly) it is not being felt by the community.

I sincerely believed that the downfall of the shard would reduce donations and sky-rocket inflate ED prices. But unfortunately (or fortunately) someone continues to donate. I have no problem with this except the struggle to understand the motives. Anyway, this is not doing any good for the shard as I fear that lack of donations would be the only way of making something happen on the shard. For the good or for the bad.

Again, looking outside the bubble we have shards with 600 players on-line on a constant daily basis and with less than half of them bank sitting. Here, we have 150 players on-line with most of them bank sitting or macro-sitting. It is a retro game but it has players for it, it just needs to bring them to our shard. And this must be done by the administration and not by the players.

I strongly support recruitment of new game masters and the increase of completely bugged but functional seasonal and monthly (or spontaneous) events.

I forgot the IDOCS but that is like having fun in a MADMAX world isn't it?
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Re: So Auction philosophy thread.

Post by Lach »

Silent wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:46 am
Johnny Warren wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:39 am
...no amount of THs are worth anything on an offline server... or a server with 30 players....
This is the most concerning part. Muolke is right today has he was right 4 years ago or even more. The auction fix won't solve the major issue here, the problem exists and will continue. For the last 6 years ? (I've even lost track of time so maybe more?) nothing has happened to this shard. We have player run-events (my sincerest thanks to them) trying to create new excitement for players and trying to keep them on the shard. Other than what players are providing we have absolutely nothing. In fact, we have less today than what we had back in 2014 for example. This means that in 10 years, the shard is not going strong, it is "on-line" for whatever that is worth. Whatever is improving in the background (allegedly) it is not being felt by the community.

I sincerely believed that the downfall of the shard would reduce donations and sky-rocket inflate ED prices. But unfortunately (or fortunately) someone continues to donate. I have no problem with this except the struggle to understand the motives. Anyway, this is not doing any good for the shard as I fear that lack of donations would be the only way of making something happen on the shard. For the good or for the bad.

Again, looking outside the bubble we have shards with 600 players on-line on a constant daily basis and with less than half of them bank sitting. Here, we have 150 players on-line with most of them bank sitting or macro-sitting. It is a retro game but it has players for it, it just needs to bring them to our shard. And this must be done by the administration and not by the players.

I strongly support recruitment of new game masters and the increase of completely bugged but functional seasonal and monthly (or spontaneous) events.

I forgot the IDOCS but that is like having fun in a MADMAX world isn't it?
Who ever "Someone" is "Someone" trys and trys to keep the peace and for some reason no matter how hard "Someone" tries to keep the peace "Someone" here thinks it's his or her place to decide what Someone" else does. "Someone" is seriously tired of being brought up in these forms and all "Someone" is doing is damaging the shard by posting publicly complaining about other players & the owner of the shard lol. Why not try helping it by idk maybe doing something for other players hold an event. Take all the frustration you apparently have for "Someone" and put it into the shard......... But "Someone" digresses because "Someone" is falling behind in work over defending "Someone's" freedom to do whatever they want.
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