Zero Tolerance Bill-
ok so i posted in another forum b/c well i really think theres got to be a way to keep the staff from being so overwhelmed.
Sooo, i propose a policy change, so when anyone is found exploiting or afk macroing or cheating or harassing staff and players that they should automatically get banned or jailed. I was on a shard once that had this policy and it was like, wow. It felt like we never had any trouble makers b/c when staff found out about them, that was it, no rumors no excuses just dealt with. not only that but everyone knew the consequence so like, everyone followed the rules. well except for the the few that thought they could get away with it. it just felt really protected. so anyway, you can vote if you want but really the only vote i care about is my own b/c i really believe in it. obviously staff will do it how they see fit but i still want them to know we have their back and we arent going to add to the problems.
love,
Llexa
"We push and we push away,
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
I agree. I also would like to use this post to ask a question in regard to the things that this bill would prohibit - AFK macroing and cheating. - I'm a new player (3weeks) and I love UOEX. Recently I got a copy of RAZOR, at first I wasn't going to use it, but after reading some posts, I thought maybe I should - but I had mixed feeling about it. Then, I had issues installing and I said F it - I'm not going to use it - I'll just work on everything the traditional way. Now, I have installed it and my feelings are still mixed. Now, as a new player who has mixed feeling about razor, can some of you comment on this proposed bill, and your feelings about afk macroing and razor - sorry if I should have started this another thread - but it seemed appropriate, and it was on my mind.
thanks.
well skade, #1 nice to have you here Razor is a UO help program so it alone isn't a problem but if you used to it i guess break rules then it would be, make sense? alot of people use razor here so you wouldnt be alone. alot of people dont use it too. personal preference i guess hope that helps!
love,
Llexa
edit: ooo good point to clarify, when i mean no afk macroing i mean the ones listed that are against the rules b/c its like, gathering resources and stuff. but like, afk macroing up magery or blacksmithy or musicianship and stuff is ok. basically the shard rule is not to afk do anything that makes you money or tokens or gets you resources like ore and wood and such.
"We push and we push away,
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
What you propose will not do what you intend. They will get overwhelmed from the work they find they need to do. Being overwhelmed with their work and reading negative posts makes them angry and as we saw will get a in one case unusual response. You would see multiple people upset and excuse their words but ban the others. Selective prosecution is never good. This would lead to no one willing to even discuss anything in the forums or be able to forgive the slightest slight. That being the case why have a forum? It is one thing to have a set of rules and a person or persons who could show they were capable of seeing more then one side or point of view and was willing to take the crazy position made forum op and handle these cases. Fairly, with warnings to all who break the rules even if it was someone who was expected to enforce the rules themselves. Consider a real word situation of zero tolerance. Friends kid goes to a school where they enacted zero tolerance on bullying. This led to them banning dodge ball as they said they felt it MIGHT lead to bullying of weaker or slower students. They also are considering ending debate as it could lead to arguing between students and that to bullying. His older daughter has a no weapon rule at her high school and she was expelled when a security guard noticed a plastic butter knife in the back of her VW. Ridiculous? Perhaps you think your suggestion could never lead to such a thing, but having seen too many unintended consequences from such things I refuse to rule it out. When someone needs a knife to cut tape you don't hand them a broadsword. Just my opinion.
what you're describing is nothing like what i am talking about . its behavioural and about following rules and taking responsibility. im not talking about ending dodgeball or debate class im talking about having respect and learning how to be mature about posts or conversation. i'm talking about NOT bullying. you dont take the dodgeball away you take the bully away lol. im talking about dealing with people who do wrong. if people know the consequence is clear cut they'll be less likely to mess around. its called being held accountable for your actions. without accountability there is only a lot of bologna, and not the good kind either.
love,
Llexa
"We push and we push away,
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
All I am going to say is that I am still giggling when i sit here and read the posts placed by people over something as simple as a GAME! I could not imagine some of you working in the Senate or House of Rep's (US GOV reference) trying to get a bill passed, you know.. something that really had world ramifications.
Being this is a privately owned shard (i.e. server is on Colibri's shoe closet) it actually does not fall under a Democratic type of control but more of a Authoritarianism. Authoritarianism describes a form of government characterized by an emphasis on the authority of the state in a republic or union. It is a political system controlled by nonelected rulers who usually permit some degree of individual freedom. While Colibri allows for individual input of ideas and grievances, when all is said and done... his decision is final and, In my opinion, it should be. I do not wish to see anyone leave or server, but alas as I have found in life, you can not please everyone all the time.
So, my personal suggestion is... to accept the things you cannot change;
courage to change the things you can; and wisdom to know the difference. Or as one of my favorite says is.... Please exit stage left.
I agree with +Neptune, lol, another thread about the purpose of meaning
Just as a precaution: please keep your posts as short as possible, I'm not an english teacher who's supposed to grade essays, hehe.
Well, i doubt we can even start considering a zero tolerance rule, that would mean one cussword and you're out. Problem is with how cusswords are defined. And as with language, the same problem comes with other rules and how they're enforced.
We could however talk about a stricter ruleset. Actually i'm just thinking thru some new rules and how penalties get applied for different forms of breaking them. So far it's been a "keep-warning-until-you-see-they-really-don't-get-it" rule, and I've recently started running low on my patience, hence why i'm considering some stricter rules. There should always be a warning, and in case of a repeat offense a somewhat mild-to-medium penalty, and if it's done again, then followed by a big penalty.
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard
Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up!
(Old Colibrian proverb)
hehe, well i just think its nice to agree to stand behind what makes things easier for you guys this is just my idea of whats easier
love,
Llexa
"We push and we push away,
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
I would be more than willing to back this bill. I've been hearing stories (none of which I can confirm, I admit) about how some players treat other players and staff, and how they exploit the game to gain wealth in various ways. While I occasionally hear these from time to time, I wonder if those who are doing these offenses are actually being punished, or punished enough...enter my behavioral psychological background in education....haha...
The fundamental law of behavior management is that behavior is managed by its consequences. For example, what does someone get for AFK mining without staff intervention? A lot of ingots that they didn't work for and/or weren't present while mining. What happens if that person is caught and is asked (beyond a warning) to stop what they are doing, but without any loss of production that was gained while macroing (ingots) or removal from future satisfaction (ban)? The answer is absolutely nothing. There was no deterrent from that person’s undesired behavior, only benefit of gaining ingots that were obtained illegally. Next, let’s say someone else notices that someone is afk mining. They report it, and the person doesn't get into trouble. Then you have given that reporting person the opportunity to be "vicariously reinforced" by the afk miner's actions. "Hmm, well since he didn't get into trouble I guess I can do it too." Then another sees it, then another, then another. Then you have a shard full of people who may get reprimanded at some point and use the "well, he was doing it too" typical 1st grader response. And finally, even more dangerous, what if the afk miner thinks "well, I don't get into trouble doing this, what about bin raiding in the newbie room?" Then pretty soon you have a player who is constantly testing the limits of what kind of rule breaking he/she can get away with...and that can be a problem with exponential growth.
Important: Meanwhile, you have a shard with 95% of its players following the rules and being for the most part courteous and caring to others, wondering why the rules they are playing by are not being enforced when it comes to these "exception to the rule" players.
However, I would also have to express a concern for drawing the lines of warning and punishment. What is enough warning? What is enough punishment? I would personally consider giving newer players to the shard a couple warnings (1 for each new offense), depending on the offense. After each offense expressing to them that they are responsible for knowing the rules of the shard and to apply logic to the large and ambiguous umbrella guidelines like "No afk accumulation of wealth" and understand that that includes gold, crafting items, quest items, items that have a gold value, items that have a player market value, tokens, weapon levels, etc. For the older players who have been here long enough to have had the opportunity to read the codex and forums and listen to Colibri and Rayne repeatedly talk over global chat about issues they frown upon, I think they should be entitled to one warning and confiscation of illegally obtained materials every so often, and an immediate temporary ban of say, 6 hours. Then if they do another violation unrelated to their last one, make it a day. If they do one that is related to one they already violated, then they are banned for a week or more, or permanently.
Call me hardcore, but making costly consequences for certain behaviors makes them all the less likely to happen, and that makes for less worked staff members, better mood staff members, less hassles, less players irritation, more availability of staff members for help, and the positives go on and on.
Ex: Why do you think Singapore has such a low crime rate? Because it has a punitive system that correlates with the Middle Ages.
But...meh....what do I know? I'd say something like this would need a pretty extensive re-writing of the shard codex for clearer rules for it to be a "fair" system. Just to cut out ambiguity....
"Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself."
Llexa, simply because I do enjoy this somewhat I will continue this discussion with this understanding. I am having a discussion and nothing more. No personal stake or investment, only life experience. Perhaps that's more in answer to Neptune. This is pixel land to me and as I stated in the game yesterday when there was some argument or such. I can make you all go away any time I want to...CLICK. It's simple.
Back to the point. This isn't about dodge ball or butter knifes. Do you think the policies I used as EXAMPLES were about that either? It was about well meaning people putting something in place that evolved to become another abuse. Nothing more or less. Respect for example isn't so simple. I was taught you don't demand it or give it away. You earn it and have to work to keep it. You are discussing punishing a specific group, you either ignore or excuse the other who acted in the same way and it seems for the same reasons. I'm sure at least one of them at least in part would agree with me.
I would love to vote on this poll, but I noticed the choices are worded in a biased manner.
I really don't support the notion of Zero-Tolerance, whether it be in real life or even in a game. If the State of Michigan had such a policy on all fronts I probably wouldn't be here today.
"To err is human, but to really foul up requires a computer." People are just prone to make mistakes, especially when it comes to cutting corners to make life a little simpler. I think the current AFK rule is fine how it is (total of 10 mins to announce you're back to avoid punishment). Exploiting and staff/player disrespect should still be done on a case-by-case basis, as every situation is unique and requires special attention.
A "Three-Strikes-You're-Out" might be just as effective when it comes to jailing/warning, with a "Strike" being removed maybe every 1-3 months of 'good behavior'.
obviously staff will do it how they see fit but i still want them to know we have their back and we arent going to add to the problems. 
Razor is a UO help program so it alone isn't a problem but if you used to it i guess break rules then it would be, make sense? alot of people use razor here so you wouldnt be alone. alot of people dont use it too. personal preference i guess 
. its behavioural and about following rules and taking responsibility. im not talking about ending dodgeball or debate class im talking about having respect and learning how to be mature about posts or conversation. i'm talking about NOT bullying. 
