Excelsior

Alright.. I say we look at a few short facts, shall we?

-Those who are against the idea of any "change", or "list" are generally those who have the tons of hours to freely invest into leveling any weapon of choice.

-Those for for minor-moderate change (possibly), and for some sort of list denoting the way XP is dished out; don't have the hours to invest.

Now that being said.. Speaking for myself momentarily; between work, my family, and the fact I'm an avid WoW player and belong to an Xbox Live clan, I'm rather limited in time to spare toward UO. Sure, there are days I'm on for 8 hours, then there are days I'm on for 10 minutes. The point is, because I cannot devote so much time to something as tedious as leveling a weapon, I'd like to see some sort of list that will help me figure out the best way to catch up on my XP.

I have the utmost desire to maximize the potential of my character and most of that stems from my experience in WoW and my old PvP days on OSI. Most people spend so much time depending on a maxxed bio, or maxxed mules/nobles, that they forget about their character itself. As long as you have Spirit Speak grandmastered, and 5 nobles, you're virtually set to run 90% of the dungeons on Excelsior. Because of my mentality toward my character, players like Polar Bear and I, would survive easily if +Colibri ever implemented a larger form of PvP. I relish in the fact, that after 2 months of busting my rear, I can go back and obliterate a mob solo, who took me a pack of nobles to defeat before. That is maximizing your potential. UO cannot be "beaten", but you can certainly "max out" your character and be able to say "i've done it all".

I believe I speak for everyone for a review of this system, when saying we are not demanding any form of change; but merely some sort of list to better explain the failed logic behind this system. If we see that there are indeed more flaws than expected, maybe more people would be interested in helping ask for a fix. There are those who don't wish to have any form of change/list, but then there are those who are. But frankly, there are hardly any changes that could come of this thread, that would directly impact those against it. If there is a list provided, you don't look at it, if you want the mystery.. If the XP algorithm is changed, then you don't read the thread on how it was, thus retaining the mystery. Too many people shoot down ideas and suggestions only because it might not benefit them personally.. start looking at the shard as a whole.

Polar Bear is right in regards to a lack of new ideas/suggestions. There are far too many naysayers and stubborn people who really couldn't care less if new additions were made, or things were fixed.

Maybe, people should consider the fact that our last milestone was in December. This is now March; and ironically enough.. not much has been added since then. This could imply we are in a slump, but this could also imply that newcomers are becoming discouraged. I alone recruited roughly 25+ people in the last 3 months that were new, and sadly, none of them have been on since. The ratio from those who stay, to those who leave has become quite.. disparaging, in my mind.

I don't wish to wage war, or have a flame battle as I've had more than my fair share of drama over the last few months. And no, I am not angry with anyone, nor attempting to be rude in this post. I'm doing what I've always done, and that's voice my opinion. But please people, let's keep the bickering to a minimum. I don't wish to see this thread locked, or the idea disregarded by staff because they don't want to sift through flames and trash replies.

Actually the last milestone was 3 weeks ago, just hasn't been made yet.

Wiki wrote: It will gain levels based on experience. You can get to max 1,000,000 experience, at the time you will reach level 100. Every time you kill something, the weapon will gain some experience. The harder the monsters, the more experience you will gain. Note that you can only gain experience if you yourself kill the monster using the weapon. It won't work if it's by a spell or if your pet kills it.

Straight from wiki. So perhaps the 3rd sentence should be removed if incorrect or correct the exp. Not tell people who point it out that they are wrong.

Llexa wrote: If we were supposed to know everything; every calculation, every chance/probability, every twist and turn, every meaning behind everything, every code formula... wow, what a lame game play experience. I mean why even play? Why not just say you're testing the code? lol

Funny but I read them just asking that what is written is correct. At least at first, after a while this thread has had too many bends.

Llexa wrote: 1. I don't believe in an exact method of leveling. Think about it from a RP(G) perspective. I mean, come on... You go to fight a dragon, with a blade of might, you kill it and you go, oh hey, I got some XP, that's cool. You don't go, oh hey, let me first consult the code to see if this dragon will give me the best XP for my weapon, despite the loot. Hm, it doesn't give me great XP so I'm going to vote that the system be overhauled b/c he's a hard thing to kill so he should automatically give me great XP.... yeah, how about no. And by who's standards SHOULD that monster or any other monster give you the best XP? There's no "should's" when you PLAY a game. It is what it is. I mean... that is the most transparent example of "I want the world to revolve around me"... A kid could say that, b/c he gets ice cream one night a week then he should get it every night b/c it's 6pm every night, and his mom said he was old enough to eat icecream and there is enough in the store for him to have it every night and the family has enough money to buy it every night and the kid has equally long and hard days in kindergarten... so the system is broken. HAH!

as I read it they do not mean the they expect and unfair amount of exp from the dragon but they expect more from the dragon then the mongbat, dog, or other weaker creature. When it says something both inside and outside the game one would expect it to be true and if not be corrected. You say there should be no shoulds in the game. I disagree, there may be exceptions but not chaos. (EXAMPLES)When you use the proper ingredients for a human bio would you not be upset if you just got a random one? If you cast greater heal on a player should you expect them to be healed or poisoned? You buy a +1 house deed you expect the deed, not a deed of a player name change.

Orbit Storm wrote: In short, let's not get side tracked about the issue with the weapon leveling system. No one is arguing that the experience is not high enough, or that it is too low. The real predicament is that the system is flawed, in that it apparently grants XP in a random fashion.. Despite the arguments opposing any idea of making the XP granted proportional to the HP of a particular mob, it would solve most of the issue. Along with a cap on how much XP you can obtain from one mob.

That depends on how many of the creatures are either to much for the min risk or too little for the high risk. Is there something special about these or is it just a mistake? I don't keep track of what exp is given by whom or what gives them most tokens etc.

TheWatcher wrote: Maybe the answer is to have random spawns throughout fel that drop insane xp?

Not insane exp, and just have it the same as Tam just stronger versions of the same creatures.

I'm not bothering to go back any further. I thought the first post was clear as to intent. I agree if the exp is off then it should be looked into, but perhaps more examples of what exp is given by what creature to see if it's minor or systemic. Just a thought.

Well...

Orbit Storm wrote: -Those who are against the idea of any "change", or "list" are generally those who have the tons of hours to freely invest into leveling any weapon of choice.

Interesting. I know I don't have much free time at all, yet I'm against the "change" or "list". But well, I'm also the person who doesn't buy a cheat guide with a brand new game either. The more challenge the better.

fingers wrote:If the game needs to be unpredictable, why would a player donating just be sure that he is going to receive X number of dyetubs and X amounts of ed's? Wouldn't it enhance the players experience to just randomize the reward from a secret formula? Wouldn't that be exciting? You donated 100$? Here are your two Eds. Why would a player killing a dragon be sure to get 700-900 gold and 20 hides? Wouldn't it be fun in a role playing point of view, if sometimes you happen to kill a dragon that is poor and only has a candle on him? Why would the keys to the mage inquisition spawn on named monsters, that's way too predictable. Why not just spread a few keys on different foes of the shard?

....I am not touching that with a ten foot pole b/c it's blown so far out of proportion and I'm pretty much surprised you went there, lol. *raises eyebrows and walks away*.

orbit storm wrote:Polar Bear is right in regards to a lack of new ideas/suggestions. There are far too many naysayers and stubborn people who really couldn't care less if new additions were made, or things were fixed.

If people are posting then they show that they care about the topic, some just happen to disagree, so they're "stubborn". Hmmm.

Orbit Storm wrote:Too many people shoot down ideas and suggestions only because it might not benefit them personally.. start looking at the shard as a whole.

Ironic.

Orbit Storm wrote: Maybe, people should consider the fact that our last milestone was in December. This is now March; and ironically enough.. not much has been added since then. This could imply we are in a slump, but this could also imply that newcomers are becoming discouraged. I alone recruited roughly 25+ people in the last 3 months that were new, and sadly, none of them have been on since. The ratio from those who stay, to those who leave has become quite.. disparaging, in my mind.

Words just don't express....

As for the analogies, they are accurate. But I'll break them down.

Boy uses his levelable weapon and he fights some hard mobs that give good xp (icecream), but he wants all hard mobs to give high XP (icecream) b/c each time (every day) he battles a tough mob it is hard for him (kindergarten). The staff (his mom) makes it clear through obvious results that, you just aren't going to get what you expect all the time (icecream every night).

and...

Guy buys a levelable deed (niki's) and should not expect to get a list based on calculations and code for XP leveling from staff (training materials from olympic trainers)

There are tons of other things but I have projects to do irl for work.

love,
Llexa

Kile Morgan wrote:Actually the last milestone was 3 weeks ago, just hasn't been made yet.

Wiki wrote: It will gain levels based on experience. You can get to max 1,000,000 experience, at the time you will reach level 100. Every time you kill something, the weapon will gain some experience. The harder the monsters, the more experience you will gain. Note that you can only gain experience if you yourself kill the monster using the weapon. It won't work if it's by a spell or if your pet kills it.

Straight from wiki. So perhaps the 3rd sentence should be removed if incorrect or correct the exp. Not tell people who point it out that they are wrong.

Imo, it doesn't say, "the harder the monsters, the more experience you will gain every time; no exceptions."

Time for more work.

love,
Llexa

Now that being said.. Speaking for myself momentarily; between work, my family, and the fact I'm an avid WoW player and belong to an Xbox Live clan, I'm rather limited in time to spare toward UO. Sure, there are days I'm on for 8 hours, then there are days I'm on for 10 minutes. The point is, because I cannot devote so much time to something as tedious as leveling a weapon, I'd like to see some sort of list that will help me figure out the best way to catch up on my XP.

I too have time restrictions with my family and the fact I own a business. If staff could just write a list of the MOBs to get the best DNA samples from to get a maxed bio I would appreciate it.

I tend to agree with Polar Bear and Orbit Storm on this one. Harder monsters giving better reward just is good game design. Your darn right I want more ice cream if I kill something challenging such as a ancient wyrm or balron compared to killing a skeleton or zombie. That’s just how game design works. It’s how RPGs systems have worked for the past 50 some years, pen and paper included, so it must be a system that makes does something right.

The reason it works is pretty simple, greater rewards for greater challenges causes players to have a reason to take up the challenge, this in turn allows players to explore the challenging content they may otherwise overlook. This gives players more game to play and keeping them playing longer.

Although Ultima Online is a leisure activity it is also a game with character progression, because it has character progression people like to do things that move their character forward. Because of this they are only likely to do things that yield good rewards, so by not having good exp rewards for very challenging such as high level monster like poison elementals and serpentine dragons it negates a good piece of motivation to do that content.

Llexa wrote: Boy uses his levelable weapon and he fights some hard mobs that give good xp (icecream).

That is where you fail to see the point: hard mobs don't give good xp. I just killed Yamandon for 57 xp. That is not a peerless. Then i killed a Minotaur for 34 xp. Thoses are the type of monsters i like to fight solo, no pets , and toghetter, they give less XP (91) than a single rune beetle, that i kill in two arrows (94).

As for the kid thing, kindergarten and all, it's just greif and I'm not going into that. Find someone else to troll.

@Kile Morgan -

Sorry for not realizing there were any other milestones, but even with it being 3 weeks ago.. that's still, roughly, a 2 month time lapse.. whereas back in Sept-Dec we were increasing weekly.. Also, I'd like to thank you for seeing what was said clearly, and voicing that.

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@Llexa -

What is ironic here, is that 3/4 of your post consisted of attacks toward mine, and mine only. Yet, there were several other players voicing the same opinion. Are we beginning to see the pattern here? Even after me taking leave from UO for 3-4 weeks to deal with strep throat/pneumonia and other various medical issues, you still haven't found it in you to stop trolling my posts and insulting me with snide/crude comments. Sorry, but if staff can't see the pattern you've emitted today, they're apparently too blind to ever do so. But because you insist on picking apart my posts, I suppose I might as well rebut to each of your attacks:

Llexa wrote:Interesting. I know I don't have much free time at all, yet I'm against the "change" or "list". But well, I'm also the person who doesn't buy a cheat guide with a brand new game either. The more challenge the better.

-You made it quite clear you were against this thread already. Are you so quick to forget what you post, or do you just purposely fill the void in your life with hypocrisy? Let's quote some of your recent comments, that to me and everyone else here, could take as an insinuation that you don't like any suggestions made here:

Llexa wrote: -"If we were supposed to know everything; every calculation, every chance/probability, every twist and turn, every meaning behind everything, every code formula... wow, what a lame game play experience. I mean why even play? Why not just say you're testing the code?"
-"I don't believe in an exact method of leveling."
-"XP is not an extension purchase of your leveling deed."
-"I don't think the system is broken at all."

Llexa wrote:I havent had problems leveling my weapon but then again I don't look at it as something I gotta overcome as fast as possible.

-"I haven't had problems leveling my weapon".. And you made the snide remark "ironic" when I mentioned people shooting down systems that don't suit them? Please, without further ado, continue to make yourself look like a fool. On a side note, there was only one post suggesting a faster leveling process, and it most assuredly did not come from me.

Llexa wrote:If people are posting then they show that they care about the topic, some just happen to disagree, so they're "stubborn". Hmmm.

-To be quite honest, it's no mystery that when I mentioned naysayers and stubborn people, it was pretty clearly directed at people such as yourself. All you've done since this thread opened, just like many others, was mock players suggestions, and disregard usage of common etiquette. Not to mention, you have yet to make any valid points, except by failed attempts at analogies that have no bearing on the situation. I'm not quite sure if you disrespect people subconsciously, or just because you think you can; but it's getting pretty ridiculous.

Llexa wrote:Imo, it doesn't say, "the harder the monsters, the more experience you will gain every time; no exceptions.

-In "your opinion" being the key words here. To everyone else, it pretty much insinuates that the harder the mob, the more XP you will gain. I don't see how that is difficult to understand; but considering you're the only person who seems to not to be able to; do you care to shed some light on it?

In conclusion to the response from you.. I think it's safe to say you have tested my limits. I've made sporadic appearances here on the forum posting in threads ranging from the smallest issues, to something that could have shard-wide repercussions such as this one. Thus far I have not had any complaints lodged against me, nor any altercations with other players. But considering our past history, it comes as no surprise that you would troll a thread I post in, and then start your usual nitpicking. Immaturity supercedes any logical form of civility with you; at least when it comes to me. No amount of superficial smilies can hide your actual intent. If you wish to continue posting this nonsense, I will respectfully ask each and every member who has mentioned your disrespect toward me, to report you. Hopefully, this time, you won't slip away on a technicality or by how much you're favored by certain members of the hierarchy. As I said, I have been quite subtle in my return to Excelsior, yet you're the first person to start harassing me. That, is the true sense of irony.

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@TheWatcher -

I'm not quite sure if that was sarcasm or not.. but I honestly don't see how that sort of list would be beneficial as it relies solely on matter of opinion.

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@NewPlayer241 -

Thank you for your input. Very well said.. I couldn't have done much better myself.

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@fingers -

Maybe we should start some sort of information system here in Excelsior and do random testing on random mobs and comprise a short list.. We could display the XP given, and a rough estimate on difficulty, based on a newer player's perspective. Thoughts?

Also, thank you for the very last snippet.

Orbit Storm wrote: Sorry for not realizing there were any other milestones, but even with it being 3 weeks ago.. that's still, roughly, a 2 month time lapse.. whereas back in Sept-Dec we were increasing weekly.. Also, I'd like to thank you for seeing what was said clearly, and voicing that.

Nothing to be sorry for, the last one at trinsic is from that time, only reason I mentioned it was that I was on during the auction with +Colibri posting in global the count. That and there is also supposed to be a cake. I got dumped last year when the cake was handed out and traded with someone for a extra they had. It's funny how he things like that can mean more then others.

Like many other places I've visited there is an ebb and flow to players. At least that is how I see it.

Maybe we should start some sort of information system here in Excelsior and do random testing on random mobs and comprise a short list.. We could display the XP given, and a rough estimate on difficulty, based on a newer player's perspective. Thoughts?

Started this earlier.
http://www.uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2388

Kile Morgan wrote:Nothing to be sorry for, the last one at trinsic is from that time, only reason I mentioned it was that I was on during the auction with +Colibri posting in global the count. That and there is also supposed to be a cake. I got dumped last year when the cake was handed out and traded with someone for a extra they had. It's funny how he things like that can mean more then others.

Like many other places I've visited there is an ebb and flow to players. At least that is how I see it.

Aah.. well I noticed both a lack of new milestones in Trinsic, and that there weren't any new posts regarding milestones..

Man, I remember back in November and December we were hitting new milestones weekly.. sometimes even daily.. Maybe it was just some sort of odd surge of players. As a side note, when I mentioned the lack of milestones before, it was never said with intention to show disdain for Excelsior. It was to make a point in that players seem to have stopped coming here as often. As I said, I recruited 25+ players in 2 month into GMD.. all of them were daily players.. at the very least, on every other day. I have yet to see nor hear from them in the last 3-4 weeks. I've even lost 2 good members who were veterans here, and a close personal friend from BMG who left us as well.

What I'm getting at here.. is that people are becoming less and less inclined to log in, when there are certain people who are pushing them out the door. I'm not naming names, because it was not any one person in particular. I've said it before and I'll say it again.. outside of the game play, I'm only here anymore for the friends I've made here, and the joy of playing UO with them. Some of these friends are getting sick of changes, or lack thereof, and tired of the way certain veterans treat people, and now they are leaving.. It's getting harder and harder for me to continue biting my tongue.

So, in essence.. the lack of milestones may not mean much.. Maybe Colibri has had his hands full and has not monitored the milestones lately.. or maybe, just maybe, people have had enough with not being "allowed" to submit their ideas and opinions without being told to "like it or leave". I just sincerely hope, that the loss of some of the esteemed members of Excelsior, will open up the eyes of the higher "clergy" here and let them see what the rest of us here are seeing.



@TheWatcher -

Yes, I just noticed the thread actually.. The funniest part is you created it right before I posted last night..

Orbit Storm, all I can say is wow. It's amazing how easily you change a situation into something completely other then what it is. I replied to many posts and quoted people other then you. I'm not familiar with "all the things" you've posted since you've been back around, so they must not be anything that I had interest in commenting on. I do care about this topic though, which is why I've posted.. You're just... over the top buddy. Same song, different tune, as you like to think I spend every minute scheming to respond to every thread you ever post on. So I guess the truth is that, if someone disagrees with Orbit Storm, then that someone is "trolling" or "harassing him" or "disrespecting him". It's also deflecting and making it personal, which makes your thoughts or arguments lose credibility. It's like when Guy1 comments on an idea, Girl2 brings up relevant points for why the idea is not so good and asks questions or comments on Guy1's reasoning's and statements, then Guy1 calls Girl2 a poopoo head and says he's gonna tell his mommy. Come on. It's about the topic, it's not about you.

fingers, you have made very broad notions that ALL hard mobs give low XP when you quoted a line from my analogy. It's just not true. The analogy was crystal clear that just b/c one hard mob gives you good XP, doesn't mean all "hard" mobs will. Simple as that.

TheWatcher wrote:

Now that being said.. Speaking for myself momentarily; between work, my family, and the fact I'm an avid WoW player and belong to an Xbox Live clan, I'm rather limited in time to spare toward UO. Sure, there are days I'm on for 8 hours, then there are days I'm on for 10 minutes. The point is, because I cannot devote so much time to something as tedious as leveling a weapon, I'd like to see some sort of list that will help me figure out the best way to catch up on my XP.

I too have time restrictions with my family and the fact I own a business. If staff could just write a list of the MOBs to get the best DNA samples from to get a maxed bio I would appreciate it.

LOL. Thanks for that

Back to the grind...
love,
Llexa

Really? It's something other than it is? Then explain to me how I've received numerous comments in-game and through other various means, that you're entirely disrespectful to me and others in this thread. You've mocked and scoffed at nearly every opinion, all the while focusing in on "I, me, my".. Never once do you consider how this would effect other players. All you've asserted thus far, is that this does/will not benefit you, and that you're a hypocritical drama queen. You always have this funny way of trying to make me look like the bad guy in threads we both comment on, but the sad thing is.. you're the only one that I seem to still have altercations with.

And in what way do you "care" about this topic? You've made it clear that any "list" or "fix" for this system is distasteful and "too easy". You've made it quite clear that you're opposed to it.. so why are you still posting here? If any list were to be released, or any minor fixes were to be made.. how would they effect you? See, your problem is that you can't stand having something go another direction than you want it to. I can say this with certainty, that you are one of the reasons for lack of new ideas and suggestions.. or at the very least, limited discussion thereof. Why? Just look back through this thread and how you treat it's posters.

Llexa wrote:So I guess the truth is that, if someone disagrees with Orbit Storm, then that someone is "trolling" or "harassing him" or "disrespecting him".

You're quite clever in talking about me in the third-person. Ironically, despite this ill-conceived claim.. it's pretty apparent that others have disagreed yet there have been no issues. So instead of dredging up useless nonsense, try sticking to the facts.

And your analogy at the end was simply.. sad. You take your outlook on this situation and try to convert it into some metaphor/analogy in a miserable fashion. I have yet to make this topic about "me".. In fact, in all of my posts I mention how this would benefit others.. I don't whine about wanting "mystery". As NewPlayer241 stated, you apparently don't have the slightest clue about basic gaming mechanics. To you, UO is your playing field for drama. To others, it's something we wish to "progress" in and reach "end-game" content. If you don't like our play style, then maybe you should leave Excelsior.

On a side note.. Your comment to TheWatcher just shows how foolhardy you are, and how you are desperately seeking "alliance" or someone to side with you. At first, I thought his post was sarcasm.. but when he helped to start the list I mentioned in my prior post.. it's quite obvious he may have been serious in this thread. So go ahead, go get your guild and have them start posting for you. It's what you always do.

As for me making things personal.. I think you picking apart my posts and responding only to the pieces you wish to make snide and rude comments on.. displays just how personal you are trying to make this. I don't give a [edited by Staff] who you are, or how long you've been here or how much rear you have kissed.. None of those things put you above civility, courtesy, and respect. I suggest you grow up and stop trolling threads I post.. just laying in wait, ready to start another drama-fest. I've had it with you.. and to be honest, 4 weeks away from Excelsior was well worth not having to put up with the likes of you, and your garbage. So unless you have something else to add that would be BENEFICIAL to this topic, I suggest you stop wasting our time and get out of this thread. You've already been titled a troll openly by two other posters.. heed the accusation and leave.

Feel better?

You're out of control man. Get a grip.

love,
Llexa

Locked.

Since we have another thread with the XP info, i will post there the response i should have posted here, after i review the script and see if there should be any changes.