Excelsior

Again, people like to assume based on their own personal feelings. If you like someone, they get all the benefits the doubt and if not, nothing you do is going to be perceived well.

any apologies for suggesting someone to go after someone else because of whatever reasons? is that good etiquette?

Zanzi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:22 pm any apologies for suggesting someone to go after someone else because of whatever reasons? is that good etiquette?

If you are asking me to apologize, i am sorry but that is not going to happen

zeeeqi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:50 pm

Muolke wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:32 pm

zeeeqi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:44 pm

I was referring to Nik's comment about me: "I rather be doing something else right now but i'm doing a public service by taking nearly half of ZeeeQi's income currently ."

As for the script price, i have never wanted to sell it, i asked for 600M as a crazy price to keep him away.

It’s interesting how some of the posters in this very thread are telling people I scammed them by charging 30-40mil for the script and when you asked 600mil (20 times as much) then that’s and it was just to keep someone away.

Either way, I’ve now had 2 people tell me that a certain someone (John Warren) is telling people I somehow scammed players by selling them a script. Not sure how it’s scamming them when I give a product for X amount of gold and that person agrees but…I guess since he’s your dear friend he’s just taking your side and being protective of you. Kind of slimy if you ask me…

You are the master of missdirection and only talking about what benefits you, i am not going to play that game.

Yes, i have said you selling it was a scam, not for selling it but for selling it when your intention have always been to attract attention to ballys so they get nerf. Also calling that you would be rich earning 500k/Hour when that's simply a lie, it's hard to do when you are alone with pretty high end gear, imagine a low-mid tier geared player competing with other 2 or 3 more for them...

You know ZeeeQi your comprehension of things is interesting to say the least. Also, your double standard is quite obvious for everyone to see.

So here’s the facts we have so far:

1. ZeeeQi offers to sell his script for 600 million but there’s nothing wrong with that.

2. Muolke offers to sell the same script for 30-40 million (about 5% what ZeeeQi wanted) and Muolke is a scammer.

3. ZeeeQi doesn’t understand what the meaning of “up to 500,000” and what “400-500k” means an interprete it as some sort of guarantee that you’ll absolutely make 500k gold per hour always. Maybe it’s because English isn’t your main language? Or possibly (most likely) because lying is the only thing that helps strengthen your argument.

4. ZeeeQi doesn’t know the definition of a scam, or maybe he does, but again…trying to portray someone else in a negative way is the only thing he has to try and make his point.

5. Somehow what (or how much) someone spends at auction is somehow relevant to this discussion? Or maybe it’s just jealousy?

What did I miss?

Hey +C, I think the following post is where the conversation deviated from the designated topic.

zeeeqi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:52 pm

zeeeqi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:50 pm
You are the master of missdirection and only talking about what benefits you, i am not going to play that game.

Yes, i have said you selling it was a scam, not for selling it but for selling it when your intention have always been to attract attention to ballys so they get nerf. Also calling that you would be rich earning 500k/Hour when that's simply a lie, it's hard to do when you are alone with pretty high end gear, imagine a low-mid tier geared player competing with other 2 or 3 more for them...

You know ZeeeQi your comprehension of things is interesting to say the least. Also, your double standard is quite obvious for everyone to see.

So here’s the facts we have so far:

1. ZeeeQi offers to sell his script for 600 million but there’s nothing wrong with that.

2. Muolke offers to sell the same script for 30-40 million (about 5% what ZeeeQi wanted) and Muolke is accused of being a scammer.

3. ZeeeQi doesn’t understand what the meaning of “up to 500,000” and what “400-500k” means an interprete it as some sort of guarantee that you’ll absolutely make 500k gold per hour always. Maybe it’s because English isn’t your main language? Or possibly (most likely) because lying is the only thing that helps strengthen your argument.

4. ZeeeQi doesn’t know the definition of a scam, or maybe he does, but again…trying to portray someone else in a negative way is the only thing he has to try and make his point.

5. Somehow what (or how much) someone spends at auction is somehow relevant to this discussion? Or maybe it’s just jealousy?

What did I miss?

Wow!!! So many people upset.....Why not just do away with script hunting completely? That solve all the issues! No more crying about who gets how much money, whining about never room for them at spawn, AND +C can work on other stuff?

Jebidia wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:22 pm Wow!!! So many people upset.....

I’ve never seen so much arguing on the forums as we have seen over the last few months

It’s not like things are going to get cheap if they “fix” afk farming. Big donators have always been king of the auctions, there is always going to likely be someone paying insane prices for things. It is what it is, there is still plenty of fun to be had here.

Here is a summary of this thread. As zanzi requested. I have tried to sift out anything not related to the thread. It gets a little tedious. I may get around to doing a summary for the other one or at the very least try to combine everything into the suggestions vs. the anti suggestions.

Hopefully, it is completely unbiased. If you want more details, click the up arrow to go to the actual post.

Section 1: Variable Recall Cooldown Thread Summary

Section 1.1: post breakdown

+Colibri wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:03 am

• Acknowledged problem with macroing/farming.
• Planning to do more AFK checks.
• Planning to make an automated AFK-check system.
• Previously offered solutions.
• Problem statement.
• Proposed solutions.
• Proposed problem solving schedule.

Section 1.1.1: thread relevant summary
Problem with blocking spots is that players will chose other spots. Eventually there will be no spots.

Recalling fast is a problem. It allows you to be in many places almost at once. It makes AFK checks difficult.

Additional recall delay based on a 10 minute counter and a threshold. Recalls above the threshold will slow down recalling until it reaches 23 seconds of delay per recall.

Mana regen debuff based on recall and intelligence. -10% every recall, +1% every 5 seconds. Reduction of recall debuff as time goes on to a certain amount. 1% reduction in penalty every 10 seconds.

Section 1.2: post breakdown

Muolke wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:25 am

• Reduce gold drop from about 8k to 1k-2k.
• Increase recall cooldown to 5s from 2s.

Section 1.3: post breakdown

Geriatric wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:29 am

• Likes diminishing returns on recall timer.
• Increase recall cooldown to 10/12s from 2s.
• Prevent inter-dungeon recalling.
• Felucca mobs have 1/2 gold:hp ratio that trammel mobs do. Should it stay that way?

Section 1.4: post breakdown

malkari wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:12 pm

• Don't penalize server for the words of a few.

Section 1.5: post breakdown

GreenBar wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:30 pm

• Reduce gold drop.
• Don't penalize recalling.

Section 1.5.1: thread relevant summary
Recall penalty affects

• Repeat Quests.
• NPC resource gathering.
• Taming.
• Demon Bone gathering (1 golden skull per Gauntlet round).

Section 1.6: post breakdown

Jebidia wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:55 pm

• Reducing gold will hurt manual players.
• Recall penalty will not hurt manual players.

Section 1.7: post breakdown

arni wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:05 pm

• Nerfing spawn will just redirect farmers.
• Age restrict cash mobs

Section 1.7.1: thread relevant summary
Age restrictions
Despise - 1 year+ - 2 balrons.
Blighted Grove (Tram) - 18 months+ - Lurge.
Sanctuary (Tram) 2 years+ - Gorub, trogs.

Section 1.8: post breakdown

Muolke wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

• Don't age restrict.

Section 1.9: post breakdown

sarmatian wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:19 pm

• Don't penalize mana regen (like being naked in middle of spawn).
• Add 1-3 tile teleport error.

Section 1.10: post breakdown

Wil wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:21 pm

• Bar fast travel during AFK checks.
• Add AFK check player mode.

Section 1.10.1: thread relevant summary
player mode:

• Player and pets become invulnerable.
• No messages generate in journal.
• No skills can be used.
• Mobs ignore player.
• AFK check on screen.

Section 1.11: post breakdown

Johnny Warren wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:28 pm

• Recall penalties are extreme and somewhat unknown.
• Recall penalties just get worked around by good scripters.

Section 1.12: post breakdown

scroft391 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:55 pm

• Reduce gold.
• Reduce spawn rates.

Section 1.13: post breakdown

Wil wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:06 pm

• Gold reduction won't work - scripting will continue.
• Diminishing returns based on repetition.

Section 1.14: post breakdown

Muolke wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:17 pm

• More AFK checks
• More complex AFK checks

Section 1.15: post breakdown

Wil wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:11 pm

• Good scripts will just circumvent whatever is done to nerf balrons.
• Nerfing balrons would both be ineffective and do more harm than good.

Section 1.16: post breakdown

arni wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:55 pm

• Nerfing gold will cause other places to get over hunted.
• Increase recall delay.

Section 1.17: post breakdown

MarkM wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:22 am

• People will always complain.
• More AFK checks.

Section 1.18: post breakdown

Muolke wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:34 am

• Dynamic loot is a bad idea. Disproportionately rewards based on location.

Section 1.19: post breakdown

wesmith wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:43 am

• Don't change recall
• Reduce gold in markable locations.
• More AFK checks.

Section 1.20: post breakdown

sarmatian wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:14 am

• Eject timeouts.

Section 1.21: post breakdown

Gaara wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:20 am

• Recall limits will hurt entire shard unless tied to specific locations.
• Mana drain will hurt under geared players.
• Instead of dropping gold, buff other areas.
• Recall timer for specific areas.

Section 1.22: post breakdown

Johnny Warren wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:19 pm

• Time better spent on other shard stuff.

Section 1.23: post breakdown

Wil wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:34 pm

• Per account per day mob gold drop cap.

Section 1.24: post breakdown

Johnny Warren wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:51 pm

• Don't do a per account per mob per day gold cap - Sounds like mobile game.

Section 1.25: post breakdown

Wil wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:26 pm

• Recall penalty will negatively affect idocs.

thats a pretty fair and accurate post breakdown there, we were getting a little side tracked on this thread
although i think you may have missed the suggestion about increasing the gold drops from other monsters
instead of a nerf to balrons, buff everything else
the earning power of scripters remains the same
increases the earning power of manual players

I am trying to find this post in this thread. The concept sounds familiar, but wasn't this concept from the other thread? I have not summarized that thread yet.

Geriatric wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:16 am although i think you may have missed the suggestion about increasing the gold drops from other monsters

that could be a possibility.

MarkM wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:16 pm Indeed Muolke the same guy PM me attacking me telling me I should be going after you and Zanzi.. I re read what I put earlier today and I do not see that as an attack rather me being funny ((Guess im not funny)). When I posted taking half of Zee's money I figured he'd get a laugh on that end! But no he feels attacked and John Warren came to protect him being a stellar friend of his. That being said, Zeee it was truly meant to be funny sorry you took it the way you did my apologies.

So, to keep it all above board, here is the alleged attack:



He stated he was doing community service in the post by limiting a rich players gold intake. I point out the fact that there are richer players. I suggest if community service is his aim, maybe he has the wrong target. Also point out the poor forum etiquette, which he has subsequently apologised for.

So, the "same guy attacking" you Nik, telling you to go after others? Please mate. Be honest with yourself and own your actions. I will mine. I 100% agree I was coming to defend a friend, that part is true. Every other piece of info I sent in the polite PM was a fact, and know everyone also knows.

I like (hopefully that doesn't become liked) your nicer side Nik. Zeee sold you a bunch of masters craft gear well below cost.... I shredded the cost on a bunch of deco and helped you make some vendor choices, because I like you as a player. I am not sure what you aim to achieve by trying to paint me as some sort of shady negative guy. Anyways, happy to shake and move on now that I have cleared my name on this charge...

As to Muolke's reference to me sending messages regarding a scam I can only find one going back through my PM's when I directly asked Kairoz, who I have always had a good relationship with and enjoy his unique play style this message "Did you actually buy into Muolke's scam?" I had heard a rumour that he had, and wanted to know from the source. So I asked, in a cynical way. I will not post the next couple of PMs from Kairoz as they don't paint the nicest picture of him, but here's how that conversation ended:


Fairly nicely. All said.

By Muolke's own admission, written right on this forum (see above post and also in PMs he has sent me), he was taking these actions not to make gold, but to draw attention to the perceived problem of balron farming. So, whilst scam might have been the wrong choice of words, it was not far from the truth. Grift may have been a better choice... but either way, making gold, while drawing attention to something to suit your own ends, and using friends along the way does sound kind of scammy. You can also see, what I have said was not slimy, or anything like that, just questioning a friend. Happy to dig up our past PMs too, kairoz if you refute my use of that term. I've never been anything but a friend to you. Full caveat, in the ommited PMs from kairoz he explained that there was more to the deal with Muolke than I understood, for which I was grateful for him. Also hoping I am still friends with Kairoz, happy to shake and move on.

One last thing, on this 600m number, that ZeeeQi was allegedly selling his script for...

You have to be very simple (which I know you're not Muolke, I know you are smart) or deliberately misunderstanding this if you thought ZeeeQi offering to sell his script for 600m was genuine. It was a cheeky way of saying, not for sale. I've done it before on my torch-kilt, when asked I said it was for sale for 2billion, and if they replied with OK, I would actually say, "sry, joking, it isn't for sale". So taking some high road where you state charging a fraction, but still hefty sum, of an irrelevant number is in no way valid. The last point Muolke, regarding jealousy, also cuts the other way. You are rich, via your dozen or so integrated ways of making gold, and you see a younger player climbing the rich list fast. So you begin a sustained attack on balron farming, because it could threaten your auction stranglehold...

Just to reiterate once more ZeeeQi is copping it as "The bally farmer" but it has been done by many players for years before Muolke arrived on the server, and a decade before ZeeeQi arrived here. It's been done in recent times and in ages past... it's always been a thing, so let's all start to take player names out of this thread.

I would like to see the personal stuff taken out of this thread. As I politely said to Nik it is poor form to make these forum posts about a person, rather than the actions/problems. I know as I was named and shamed years back for being the guy that sometimes would spin my character in circles!! The audacity. Can we all cool it. Stick to the arguments for and against variable recall cooldown, the need or not to nerf ballys and or fel wrong and try and stick to the thread topic. KTHXBAI

Muolke wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:21 pm

zeeeqi wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:50 pm
You are the master of missdirection and only talking about what benefits you, i am not going to play that game.

Yes, i have said you selling it was a scam, not for selling it but for selling it when your intention have always been to attract attention to ballys so they get nerf. Also calling that you would be rich earning 500k/Hour when that's simply a lie, it's hard to do when you are alone with pretty high end gear, imagine a low-mid tier geared player competing with other 2 or 3 more for them...

You know ZeeeQi your comprehension of things is interesting to say the least. Also, your double standard is quite obvious for everyone to see.

So here’s the facts we have so far:

1. ZeeeQi offers to sell his script for 600 million but there’s nothing wrong with that.

2. Muolke offers to sell the same script for 30-40 million (about 5% what ZeeeQi wanted) and Muolke is accused of being a scammer.

3. ZeeeQi doesn’t understand what the meaning of “up to 500,000” and what “400-500k” means an interprete it as some sort of guarantee that you’ll absolutely make 500k gold per hour always. Maybe it’s because English isn’t your main language? Or possibly (most likely) because lying is the only thing that helps strengthen your argument.

4. ZeeeQi doesn’t know the definition of a scam, or maybe he does, but again…trying to portray someone else in a negative way is the only thing he has to try and make his point.

5. Somehow what (or how much) someone spends at auction is somehow relevant to this discussion? Or maybe it’s just jealousy?

What did I miss?

1.- Of course there's nothing wrong with that. I'm gonna say it for 3rd or 4th time already, I DIDN'T WANT TO SELL MY SCRIPT, but if someone was willing to pay me 600M for it i would have taken it for sure, that's thousands hours of farming...

2.- NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said the scam was for the pure fact of selling a script, i'm ok with that. How would u feel if you bought a car that the person you bought it from knew it was going to blow up after 2000Miles? I would feel scammed if that happened

3.- I understand perfectly the meaning of "Up to 500,000". Actually what you said was "Hit play and earn 400-500k gold per hour" as i have said previously too, if i buy something with that kind of advertisement i would expect to "Hit play and earn 400-500k gold per hour".

This would be a more accurate advertisement:
Hit play and earn 400-500k gold per hour!!
DISCLAIMER: To get that you would need to be solo there for a whole hour which is quite rare to happens and have a very good endgame gear to
kill balrons fast enough to achieve it. If not, you should expect to take way less income per hour.

4.- I know the definition of scam, and i keep saying it. Also about what you said about me not being native speaker you're right, i'm not a native english speaker but i think my english is good enough to have a conversation without missing anything, or you forgot already when you asked me if i was american, and when i said i wasn't you said "That explains why you write better than most americans does"

5.- I was just honestly curious about money spent to see if i had spent too much gold to be considered a problem to the economy (I take the balron thing personally as i am who farm balrons the most), but i was surprised when i saw the top 4 spenders weren't people that usually farm balrons... I'm sorry to tell you this, but envy is not my thing, it makes me happy to see others grow and improve. Maybe others have this problem but not me.

If we are talking about general mob solutions, I was playing around with an idea that might be better for young and non-script players.

What if you keep the variability of the gold drops, but use combat time or damage/health as a factor in the gold drop.
For example, lets say a balron drops 1k-8k gold.
A scripter who kills the balron in 5s could expect a lower average (maybe 1.5k gold) than a young player that takes 5 minute to kill a balron (maybe 5k gold).

Benefits

• Should work on any mob.
• Encourages scripters to slow down their scripts.
• Decreases the gap between younger and older players (gold wise).
• Doesn't affect other game mechanics.
• Theoretically increases the mob capacity (since people will take longer to kill mobs) of a dungeon.

Disadvantages

• Could increase inflation.
• Combat time might be a hard parameter to figure out. You could check for hp loss, but if its not constant, someone might just hit a bunch of mobs and then come back once the optimal value is reached.

Thoughts?