Treasure Hunting Update

[heyyo]

What Yoda said, I run by the prisoner treasure camp right outside the forget entrance all the time, and it's always spawned. I've seen the +3 gear for sale for 200k a piece, and if you're doing lvl 6 maps I'd imagine this should be affordable (otherwise it's 4 days of voting for the shard if you're poor). You would only need 2 pieces to get over that 100 skill bump to do lvl 5 maps if you're stuck at 95.5.

One suggestion I can suggest is increase the size of the trash for tokens bag (or decrease the time it takes to get rid of items in container). When I treasure hunt I empty the whole chest. I fill up the trash bag about halfway through, and either have to wait for the bag to empty, or litter the items on the ground. I used to drop the items on the corpses of the mobs I'd killed once my trash container was full, but this is no longer an option. I actually like this change, but it was nice for when I was treasure hunting.

[Annachie]

Perhaps an 'empty trash bag now' button/option?

[Isaac Newton]

Like the one we had years ago but people kept hitting by accident? I miss that feature now that I want to use it. :)

Isaac Newton

[Unbeliever]

Yoda - I respect you as a helpful and friendly player on this server but you tend to have a skewed view of things that you no longer have need of yourself. I'm reminded of your outspoken negative views on beekeeping, which helps get quite a few newer players off the ground and seems to teach quite a few either frustration, humility., and/or the value of putting in some (realistic) effort.

[quote="Yoda"]the new maps drop +lockpicking gear with the skill level needed there are players like me who absolutely won't need it unless opening a level 8 chest etc.. and since we are into perfection would only keep the +5 stuff anyway.. so guess what that means player vendors will sell +3 and likely even +5 lockpicking gear pieces... so in theory a player such as yourself who feels all slighted by the new changes could buy some of this gear and fix their issue instantly.. the gains achieved from wearing JUST ENOUGH lockpicking gear to open the enhanced chest will allow you to gradually wear less of it and be able to then open them naturally and gain again.. just like training ninjitsu with a hanzo's bow[/quote]

Yes, players could wear enough +gear to enable them to attempt, and therefore potentially gain skill from, treasure chests of a level normally outside their reach. That doesn't change the fact that it will be an achingly slow process for anyone by any means. It''s about as far from macroing ninjitsu while holding a Hanzo's as you can get. It doesn't change what I said about the gear in the other post either. Also, I thought it was obvious but this - " in theory a player such as yourself who feels all slighted by the new changes" is off the mark. I never make comment on a change with only my own wants or characters in mind. Most nights, and it sucks, I just make enough time to get on, take care of the bees, sort a few odds and ends and talk to a few people. Life cramped my treasure hunting style long before this update came out. But I've been playing here over a year and am still an upper-low/lower-middle range player - on purpose, because I generally LIKE doing things the hard way, believe it or not - so I'm aware of how it feels to be in this range. I also talk a lot, read a lot, and listen a lot. And I've been playing this game over a decade and have seen just about everything , though most of it is just the same stuff repeated over and over again on different ips. I'm speaking for the average player - one of which, so far, nicely took the time to thank me for my post - as someone who cares what happens to them and the server overall.

[quote="Yoda"]as well lockpicking elixiers are readily available on player vendors or looting them from the citadel elixier chest[/quote]

Just as if you're a brand new player this update is no big deal because now it's a no-brainer to skillball LP, if you're a loaded rich player who can afford to buy LP elixiers at 200+k a pop or another +20 skillball I guess it isn't a big deal either. Not everyone's in that crowd though. Besides which, if the argument is going to be that everyone should take a workaround to raising LP, then what was the value in increasing the difficulty of training it at all?


[quote="Yoda"]3 benefits
1. a market for lockpicking gear opens up
2. a market for lockpicking elixiers widens (which instantly gain the skill 0.8-1.2 depending on strength) opens up
3. both of these things help an already ailing economy.[/quote]

1. I won't say what I think about the gear again.
2. Any LP elixiers I saw were around 200k even before this update. They were already in high demand because a fair amount of people didn't even want to train it under the old rules.
3. If you really want to help this pseudo-economy without harming a soul, all you need to do is remove balrons. That one thing alone would knock a good sized chunk of gold influx out of the park.

[quote="Yoda"]plus as he mentioned only the trammel chests (prisoner camp) are so heavily competed.. felucca prisoner camp chests are all over and rarely touched. I used them quite often boosting my lockpicking. As well this "repeated tool method" I never used it because I didn't think such a thing would work.. and got to 120 without it when the player base was much larger.
I think your complaint is vastly overblown and Requiem did a heck of a job balancing the new content.[/quote]

Going to Felucca to do the Prisoner Camp chests definitely isn't going to speed up the process of training the skill, even less so now that the concept is public knowledge. Kudos on training it to 120 on your own, without speed-tooling it. But even if you were representative of an average player when you did it and not an outlier, which I have no idea, that's irrelevant with regard to the new changes

My opinions were not overblown, they were simply long - made moreso by the promise of additional nerfs to come. That's because +Requiem addressed my initial statements point-by-point - unlike you, who hardly addressed a single point I made - and because I'm wordy, which I already apologized for.

[quote="Yoda"]sometimes staff has to tweak things. I shudder to think about the level of posts like this that will come up when they address the breedables/pet system and fix the myriad of balance issues there.[/quote]

I'd ask that instead of trying to paint me as a nuisance to the decision-makers, and offhandedly dismissing my post and all players' opinions that are yet-to-be, you let them speak for themselves. I asked a few questions and made what I thought were intelligent points, and mostly not even for my own sake. Staff isn't required to reply to me anymore than you are, but +Requiem DID reply of his own free will and asked questions that invited replies. Thus the conversation continued.

[Yoda]

or you could calm down and try to enjoy the content?

I don't think I said anything particularly bad

1. using boost gear temporarily to raise you into another skill raising level isn't a workaround its a technique.
2. I wasn't bashing you the person just the point of view that "everything is ruined"
3. getting lockpicking elixiers can be free
4. getting +3 lockpicking gear can be free (level 5 tmaps)
5. i never suggested getting a +20 skillball
6. removing balrons won't do a thing to fix the economy it will just move the problem to the next highest paying monster on the totem pole.
7. never ever have I touched a bee.. the "skewed viewpoint" is one I have had since i had young status

listen you obviously disagree, you have stated that now more than once.. opinion noted.. I also stated an opinion that you are now aware of. the back and forth doesn't accomplish much.

Staff made a decision, often change is difficult, doesn't make change bad.

p.s. this thread SHOULD be about the enhanced gold, the new items, and saying hey +R .... nice job

[heyyo]

Just got a lvl 6 TRAM map from a lvl 5 FEL map (happened twice). Just a heads up, I don't think that was +R's intended plan.

[heyyo]

And also of note after doing about 50 or so lvl 5 fel maps I've only got a single lockpicking and cartography piece. lol sample size, but I've seen a few vendors selling the pieces for 200k, and that seems a bargain. Are they dropping more frequently off tram maps, or off of different lvl maps?

[Pheobe]

I must say since the update to treasure maps I have been out doing lots of treasure maps. Had a big stock of them at the house and decided to start going threw them.

I have noticed that just because you're doing a trammel map doesn't mean you'll get a trammel map, I've gotten level 6 felucca maps from a level 5 trammel. You can get either from either.

I have also noticed my lock picking has gone up, not super fast but I'm happy with the gains so far.

As far as the dropping of + gear, I have gotten several pieces in the 40 or so maps I've done so far so and I primarily do trammel maps and have done mostly level 5. I did get a +5 piece from a level 6 map.

I have been excited to see the new items (coconuts anyone?). Love the added gold because, come on, who doesn't love more gold! I've always looked at treasure maps as creating my own little dungeon to fight in. When I find other places too busy I do some treasure maps. I find the changes +R has done has made it a much more enjoyable task.

Thanks for the great job +R!

[Pariah]

[quote="Yoda"]
1. using boost gear temporarily to raise you into another skill raising level isn't a workaround its a technique.
3. getting lockpicking elixiers can be free
4. getting +3 lockpicking gear can be free (level 5 tmaps)[/quote]

1, 4. Agreed, but the viability of the technique is what is being debated. The gear is in limited quantities and contains a finite amount of uses. I don't know about drop rates or how many items will be available once the newness calms down. I suppose this is wait and see.
3. Again, viability. There is ONE chest on the entire shard spawning a random elixir. There has never been, nor do do I believe there will ever be a significant volume of these.

Both sides seem to be entrenched at this point, but no one knows for sure how all this will shake out. I myself am in 2 minds about this one. I like the new content, the challenging aspect of skill building, etc. It does well rewarding everyone at every level (t-maps 1-5 even spawn new items). I'm divided in terms of skill building (both LP and Carto) as with most other skills there are more available options at building. At the same time, why release such a great update and content if everyone can exhaust it in a week? I appreciate all of the work that has been put into the update. Bravo +R!

[Yoda]

[quote="Pariah"]At the same time, why release such a great update and content if everyone can exhaust it in a week?[/quote]

I doubt it will exhaust in a week.. I have not yet even seen an infernal map (level8) of which I am intensely curious as the 3 diabolical maps that have dropped in chests have all been trammel maps. so it will take a while of serious dedication for someone to complete a collection from the level 8 maps.

as well I believe requiem said this is all subject to further enhancement as time goes on, which will be great. Definitely beats the stagnant nature of the treasure maps up until this point Id say

[quote="Pariah"]I appreciate all of the work that has been put into the update. Bravo +R![/quote]
this is the most important thing you have said in the entire topic. I think gratitude is the biggest thing we can do to get more and better content from the staff so thank you for saying this. Its very easy to be critical, its sometimes harder to express appreciation. and a Volunteer that feels appreciated is more likely to turn out more things.

[Pariah]

Not that I need your validation, but I've shown gratitude in every post I've placed in this thread, even when I made suggestions. In fact, I believe everyone has been very effusive with the praise, even those who have been critical of certain aspects have expressed their appreciation for the update. Perhaps you should go and reread them. I appreciate that everyone can offer their thoughts on the forums and that our staff listens. Offering a robust critique at this point would be premature in my eyes so I believe anyone firmly in one camp or another probably needs to take the longer view.

[Yoda]

I was just saying I liked reading that.. he worked hard at the update

[Unbeliever]

[redacted]

[+Requiem]

"Does it imprrove the players game experience" is a very subjective question, and the answers will vary. While I certainly try to accomplish that, i know going into it i can't please everyone.

When I decided I wanted to update treasure maps, I wanted to create something interactive, fun, and long term. the goal wasn't to make it so everyone was doing level 8 maps inside of a week of release.

In my mind, treasure hunting is the activity, and lock picking is the necessary evil. Yes, it is the grindy part, and yes, I realize this. I think many skills here are much too easy to raise. There is really no sense of acomplishment from setting a macro, going to bed, and waking up with 120 in a skill. While I don't want it to be overly restrictive, I do want players to work for the rewards I have chosen to integrate into this system, and any others I am part of designing, or implementing.

That being said, I also provided a way (limited as it might be) to achieve the highest possible rewards, without maxing your skill. I could have made it progression based, and limited the things to a single chest reward after a long quest line, but I didn't feel that was the right way to go about things. I didn't want a quest, I wanted an updated system all together, which is what you see.

Maybe people have become too accustomed to easy mode on here, and just want everything handed to them. I'm sorry, but I don't work that way, and you can expect more difficulties in any future content I work on. I know some view it as a punishment, but i view it as a challenge. Its difficult to create something balanced, not overpowered, all the while being an enjoyable activity. Not everyone will enjoy it, and if you don't please, skip it and do something you do enjoy. There is so much this game offeres in terms of things to do, you shouldn't be limited to one or another you dislike.

Unbliever, while you make some sort of sense in that many things are not logical, the delays exist for a reason. One of them being to help combat the difference between someone who is using a macro, and someone who is actually *gasp* playing the game without scripting every thing. As a player, previous to my "nerf", I could use a lockpick 3-5 times on a chest before it opened. As a scripter, how many times could it be done? I don't know, but im 100% sure more than 3-5. Now, everyone is limited to 1 per second or so. Which I don't think is unreasonable. Originally we had thought about a 10-11 second delay, and ultimately decided around 1 was enough. We also thought about making it so if you failed a certain number of times, the chest was destroyed, or otherwise un-openable. (I don't know the exact value Colibri used - he doesn't give himself enough credit for all the help he provided in this update).

So believe me, we *do* think about these things, and there are reasons for them other than making things difficult for the sake of making them difficult.

The chests will get easier to open the more lock picking you have. If you have 120, and are trying to open a level 8 chest, you might have around a 1% chance. (To be honest, i don't remember if this is in currently, or planned for an update, and i don't have time to look at my notes right now). However, if you have 125 (just a single piece of +5 gear) your chance might go up to as much as 10% or more. I'm not giving out exact numbers, but believe me when I tell you, it was planned out, and talked about quite a bit before we implemented it. Even high end players will benefit from more lockpicking gear. And If you aren't tough enough to handle the monsters, maybe you should stick to lower level chests until you are. I don't believe a newbie should be able to do what a veteran can. If a level 7 chest is too strong for you, try a level 6 or a level 5 until you improve.

Though Excelsior doesn't need fixing, it does need refreshing new content, in my opinion. We have quite a bit planned, and you are just starting to see the tip of the iceberg in the distance, over the horizon. Some you will like, some you will dislike, and some will start one way, and finish another. We are tweaking things as we go.

As far as "nerfing" all crafting and resource gathering... Yes, I do plan to address that, because I view these "short-cuts" as cheating. I have mined for hours at a time, using a single shovel. There is no reason that these "short-cuts" need to exist. Perhaps there are other long term economic benefits to only having people mine that actually want to, or enjoy mining.



Heyyo, yes - we left it so that you could get either facet map from any chest. I originally thought this was a bug when i was testing it, but then figured, that i liked the randomness. Why does it have to be limited to fel or tram just because thats where you found the chest? I think it also lets people do a level 5 trammel chests, find a level 6 fel chest, which might even lead them back to a level 7 tram chest. Now, THAT is a treasure hunt! Instead of

"press button to decode map"
"recall"
"do chest"
"repeat".

[Unbeliever]

[redacted]