Excelsior

Do we really need another reason to make peerless more inviting? A spawn that is already camped for imprisoned pets and we want to add uber xp to make even more people camp it?

I think the idea of people being forced to look outside of peerless bosses for xp is great for a growing shard. The more we force people out into other dungeons the better.

That's not to say you shouldn't get more xp for harder monsters. But I wouldn't be adverse to changes where the peerless gave no xp. No reason to increase traffic in an already crowded area.

TheWatcher

double post

Shimmering and paroxysmus are not camped at all. I would suggest reading my other post where i ask for some mean monsters to be added to sanctuary and bedlam crypts. Hard environments prevents peerless camping! I kill a Rune Beetle in two arrows, I need several hundreds of arrows to kill a peerless. XP stands for experience. Hellooooo? Getting more experience from killing a rune beetle than killing cheif paroxysmus? Any peerless should definitly give more xp than a rune beetle.

Polar Bear

They are barely camped because of the difficulty to kill them. I doubt there are more than a handful of people on the shard who could stand toe to toe with parox or shimmering. So adding more xp will only in my opinion help those people. If people are to kill peerless without pets for xp it will be the easy peerless they attempt, like your travesties for example.

I just cannot fathom why someone would be making a deal about this. If you know rune beetles are easier and give more xp than a peerless why would you not fight rune beetles? As you said they take 3 arrows and spawn a hell of a lot faster than peerless. Just my opinion.

I wasn't trying to solve the spawn camping problem just trying to not give people more incentive to camp spawns

I can see how you are saying that the experience does not always fit the challenge of the creature but is it really such a problem?

Getting experience to your weapon is secondary. You play the game doing things for what ever reason and get the experience as a bonus. I dont think its ment for you to do something just for the experience to your weapon. So when you do a peerless you do it for other reasons and the experience to your weapon is just a bonus on top of all the other things.

Maybe in time they will go through and change the experience given and the harder to kill monsters will be on the higher end of a table. But I dont see experience given ever being directly proportional to a creatures hp. For example killing Travesty should never give 100 time more experience than the rune beetle.

If such changes are made then I think the range of experience should stay as it currently is. For example if the table of experience currently ranges from say 10 - 200 experience then at most killing Travesty would give 200 experience. And even though that would make the experience given more logical it would not make leveling weapons different or better.

With that all being said.... if the only reason for doing this is because the wiki say its this way then it really would be easier to just edit the wiki.

Something you might be missing is that the amount of exp a weapon gets is also based on the amount of dmg you do with the weapon. If I shoot a dragon twice with my bow but my mules do most of the dmg it gets a percentage of the amount of exp it could have, if I kite the dragon and kill it with nothing but my bow it gets the full amount.

First for anarg, obviously i am only talking of pure weapon damage, not using pets at all in the equation.

Also, for thoses who don't get the idea. Lets say the shard was build in a way that all mongbats gave 5k of gold upon death and balrons, 30 gold peices. Now every player would spend the whole day killing mongats. It sure would work. It sure would close the gap between vets and noobs. But where is the cookie for the player who likes challenge? I have been told, if I don't like it, kill some other foes, or for that matter, that I don't need to use the leveling system if I am not happy.

I don't think that this is actually productive. You see me running around in all other posts? One says breeding is too hard now: "if you don't like the breeding system, don't use it". An other asks for some carpentry saws while chopping wood with an axe: "If you don't like the actual setting on petrified elemental, don't use gargoyle axes to chop wood". An other says the BOD system need to be worked on: "If you don't like the BOD system, don't do BODs." You get the idea?

All I am saying is that the risk vs reward system should apply for leveling weapons as every thing in the shard.

I will prefix this by saying I tend to only look at the forums at work, on my iPhone. As a result it is hard to convey tonality when I am limiting what I am typing. I am absolutely not saying that you should down tools and stop leveling weapons nor am I saying there shouldn't be some common sense in regards to a risk vs reward.

The whole point of a thread like this in my opinion Is to open debate which quite often causes heated arguements. I am in no way trying to aggrivate anyone.

My whole point is that we have a world (actually heap of world) that are immense and vast with dungeons gallore, but have a handful of places that are frequented by most players on the shard. I've run from one end of fel to the other and the only time you run into anyone is at spawns or peerless dungeons. I do not think we should be try to drive more people into these areas. In fact I feel we should be doing the opposite.

Maybe the answer is to have random spawns throughout fel that drop insane xp?

In the grand scheme of things I think there are other issues that need be addressed first. ie I filled a carp bod the other day and received nothing for my troubles.

I congratulate you on your ability to do what you do ingame. I wish my biggest concern was that I could solo a peerless without pets and I wasn't rewarded properly for it. I hope to be there myself one day. I do understand the heartache that comes with being so good at a game you struggle to find a challenge. I am a fair tic tac toe player you see

TheWatcher

Quite a few replies since I last posted, so I'm only going to cover a few bases here..

Firstly, I notice that a lot of you are thinking that the issue is with the XP not being exorbitant amounts. Neither I, nor Polar Bear, are demanding high amounts of XP for Peerless bosses. It's more along the lines that a simple, and quite easy, creature grants a significantly higher amount of XP than a Peerless boss.. And that to me, leaves me questioning the weapon leveling system. In other words, if that sort if disparity is common amongst harder vs lesser mobs, then a leveling deed certainly is not worth my time, nor my money. As Llexa has stated in a previous post.. these weapons are an investment which requires a lot of time; thus if I'm going to put that kind of effort into something, I'd want to be certain this system doesn't grant random amounts of XP on a whim.. which if it does, then the deeds should suffer a tremendous value loss.

I would disagree with adding more mobs to Peerless areas such as Sanctuary. A lot of Peerless dungeons are difficult as is. Most venture forth with the knowledge of certain death, and a pack of nobles (if not a bio!) at their side. Sure, this would prevent "Camping", but it would only discourage younger players even further, to not attempt the Mage's Inquisition.

@ amadman.. I respectfully disagree with your comment stating that XP is just a "bonus". Considering you have to spend 100k tokens, equivalent to 300k, I wouldn't consider weapon XP a bonus, but moreover a benefit that you've paid for. I like your suggestion, however, of adding a cap limit to XP per mob. That would certainly quell most of the issue. Even if staff would turn down the notion of releasing a list of XP granted per mob, they could at least say "the cap limit is 200, the harder the mob, the closer to that cap limit you will get". At least then, everyone could estimate the XP they'd gain.

@ Watcher.. Thank you for mentioning the idea of random spawns granting higher amounts of XP. I mentioned that in my first post, but never received any actual reply to the idea, amongst all the commotion and bickering..

Orbit Storm wrote: On a side note.. I'm not aware of whether or not "Rares" still have the old OSI daily spawn timers.. but how about having random "rares" spawn daily, or weekly in different locations? Level deeds, free mid-level weapons.. or even have a random spawn that grants tons of XP. Maybe this would dissolve some of the grievances around the longevity required for levelable weapons?

In short, let's not get side tracked about the issue with the weapon leveling system. No one is arguing that the experience is not high enough, or that it is too low. The real predicament is that the system is flawed, in that it apparently grants XP in a random fashion.. Despite the arguments opposing any idea of making the XP granted proportional to the HP of a particular mob, it would solve most of the issue. Along with a cap on how much XP you can obtain from one mob.

On a final note.. Polar Bear, your comments on the ever-steady "if you don't like it, leave/do something different" couldn't be more truthful, unfortunately. I too, have quietly watched over some of the latest suggestion threads and seen some the very same comments you speak of. Thus why I stopped making suggestions for the shard months ago, unless I'm backing someone else's. In the words of Woodrow Wilson - "If you want to make enemies, try to change something."

But as you mentioned.. denying any change at all is simply counter-productive. I've never believed Excelsior needed a complete overhaul of any sort, nor have I thought that of any of the systems. It's frustrating, maddening even, to see comments such as "don't use it", or "if it's not broken, don't fix it". They're over-played and stated without any grounds to stand on, nor with any regard to other peoples' opinions. In parting, here are a few quotes to ponder over:

Ralph Waldo Emerson - "Life is a progress, and not a station."

J.F.K. - "Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."

George Bernard Shaw - "Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not?' "


===

Thought a few quotes on simple change would be some food for thought for some of the stickler's out there. Much like Watcher stated, threads like these tend to get out of hand, but do not take my posts as propaganda, nor as an insult toward anyone here. Also, I apologize for rambling and typos.. it's quite late..

Orbit, boy you did ramble on but i like your points.

If Travesty or any peerless boss for that matter gave 200 weapon exp, this thread would never have been created. That would be twice as much as exp as any mob i know of. Would that create a huge influx of players there to melee the peerless?
NO! it wouldn't.
I can go almost anywhere else in the world and get 200 exp in mere seconds, why would I bother with a > 10 min fight, just to get that?
This topic isn't about creating bottlenecks at peerless, making weapons easier to level, or anything else. It is about following a system that the wiki clearly states. Harder monsters give more experience.

Trolls need not reply.

I firmly believe, as do many of you, that the spirit of this thread is that which can be summed up in one simple sentence:

"Allow Given XP, be it Weapon or Pet, to be Scalable Depending on Monster Difficulty"

Ah the great wall of text...

If we were supposed to know everything; every calculation, every chance/probability, every twist and turn, every meaning behind everything, every code formula... wow, what a lame game play experience. I mean why even play? Why not just say you're testing the code? lol

1. I don't believe in an exact method of leveling. Think about it from a RP(G) perspective. I mean, come on... You go to fight a dragon, with a blade of might, you kill it and you go, oh hey, I got some XP, that's cool. You don't go, oh hey, let me first consult the code to see if this dragon will give me the best XP for my weapon, despite the loot. Hm, it doesn't give me great XP so I'm going to vote that the system be overhauled b/c he's a hard thing to kill so he should automatically give me great XP.... yeah, how about no. And by who's standards SHOULD that monster or any other monster give you the best XP? There's no "should's" when you PLAY a game. It is what it is. I mean... that is the most transparent example of "I want the world to revolve around me"... A kid could say that, b/c he gets ice cream one night a week then he should get it every night b/c it's 6pm every night, and his mom said he was old enough to eat icecream and there is enough in the store for him to have it every night and the family has enough money to buy it every night and the kid has equally long and hard days in kindergarten... so the system is broken. HAH!
2. XP is not an extension purchase of your leveling deed. You could buy a leveling deed, which gives the weapon the ability to become levelable and gives you the ability to fight mobs and gain XP for your weap, but you're not buying future rights to a system of absolute formulas for predictable mobs to kill for XP. Just b/c you buy Niki shoes doesn't mean you'll be pointed in the direction of the olympic coaches and given all of their training materials.
3. I still agree with Lyandrin on the whole Peerless topic. I dont think they are meant to be killed for xp, and some arent even meant to be killed at all but thats for a whole other thread. And no, fingers we aren't in the same guild, but great minds do think alike
4. Hmmm... I think thats about it. I don't think the system is broken at all. I havent had problems leveling my weapon but then again I don't look at it as something I gotta overcome as fast as possible. I look at it for the journey and the adventure and the whole, figuring things out as I go along. That's a great ending point... play the game for the journey.. it's not a game to beat which was said before. It's a game to inhabit.. like an alternate civilization. Power playing (hurrying to get something over with) isnt really relevant in this kind of game environment.If you want to power play, go get your FF on!


love,
Llexa

Well said, and many valid points..
I don't think anyone here is demanding to know every code behind every system. But I, for one, am all about maximizing my character's potential. There are hundreds of posts revolving around maximizing your hit chance, parry, damage, etc.; ironically enough, they all resort to the code at some point in that thread. Is it safe to assume everyone should stop doing so? Because as you have described it, they are knowing "every calculation, every chance/probability, every twist and turn, every meaning behind everything, every code formula".

In order for me to rebut to the rest of your post, I'll need to address each topic as you numbered it..

1- The XP topic in no way relates to a kid desiring ice cream nightly. It's not necessarily a "standard" that certain mobs should grant certain XP; moreover common sense. There doesn't need to be an exact algorithm in place for XP gains, but there should at least be a rough estimate that revolves around logic. It's like telling me the mechanic who works on bicycles will be better than the one who works on cement mixers.. On a side note, Excelsior does not even come close to RP. We have way too many comforts here to even begin to fantasize about RP. Besides, did the Knights of the Round Table discuss how much XP they got on each of their blades after a battle?

2- Again, no one is looking for "absolute formulas". I just want to be able to say "hey! that dragon will provide more XP than this rat!" If it's the other way around, the system is obviously flawed. I don't need to know that a Drake will provide more XP than a Dragon.. but I should be able to assume an Ancient Wyrm will provide more than both. Nike shoes may not guarantee a meeting with an Olympic coach, but they should at the very least provide the comfort in your soles while getting there.

3- See, the only issue here is.. is that Peerless should be the ultimate XP gain, however, allowing that to happen would essentially condone camping; making it worse than it already is. Thus why I suggested in a previous post about having random spawns who grant large amounts of XP, or "Rare" spawn points (much like the fruit basket!) which will have XP deeds, etc.

4- I haven't had problems leveling mine much either. I've noticed several complaints regarding the speed of the process, but I'm fine with how it is now. After years of PvP on OSI, and years of end-game raiding in WoW; I've come to a point that when I play a game, to me, the only foreseeable way of reaching "end-game" is by maximizing my character's potential in every way, and getting there. I don't do it for the competition, I do it to satisfy my own desire to say "hey.. I've done it all". It doesn't need to happen over night, but I don't want to take a 10 mile detour because a friend says it's the direction he takes, when I could consult a map and get to my destination in the most logical fashion. By the way, FF is garbage!!

I will not fall in greifing; such as comparing someone who is questionning the logic of a system to a children crying for ice cream.

I will just say that I visited an other free shard yesterday. Under the donation tab, it is written that every donation is welcomed, that it helps to keep the shard alive, but that it doesn't give any type of reward to the donator. That shard runs with 200-500 players on at all time. So it is quite obvious that the donations don't need to be tied to a reward to keep a server running. that being said, lets follow the logic of the following sentence:

"If we were supposed to know everything; every calculation, every chance/probability, every twist and turn, every meaning behind everything, every code formula... wow, what a lame game play experience."

If the game needs to be unpredictable, why would a player donating just be sure that he is going to receive X number of dyetubs and X amounts of ed's? Wouldn't it enhance the players experience to just randomize the reward from a secret formula? Wouldn't that be exciting? You donated 100$? Here are your two Eds. Why would a player killing a dragon be sure to get 700-900 gold and 20 hides? Wouldn't it be fun in a role playing point of view, if sometimes you happen to kill a dragon that is poor and only has a candle on him? Why would the keys to the mage inquisition spawn on named monsters, that's way too predictable. Why not just spread a few keys on different foes of the shard?

That just makes no sens.

Also, annoying anology like this kindergarden trash that was spewed was not needed and makes it that most of the players don't care to post new ideas here. As a result we read posts such as find the picture that do sooooo much to help the shard get better

I hope that everyone can remember that this is JUST a GAME, and enjoy their time playing.

Akros