Excelsior

we should get rid of honey selling to the npc. ;P as the fantastic 4 once said.

"flame on"
:O

anarchy wrote:we should get rid of honey selling to the npc. ;P as the fantastic 4 once said.

"flame on"
:O

+1

We gonna make some changes let's make them fair across the boards.

also make kegs expensive to make, or get rid of keg making all together since it can be afked too. oh wait that would make 1 person upset.. we cant do that.

if this change was due to people afk. then maybe change the afk consequences. like for instance you get 1 warning. then ban, or delete all their gold. why hurt some of the other people who are following the rules because of a few people. i don't do bandies, or honey anymore, but i can see theses changes just hurting people instead of making the game fun for them.

side note: stop afk resource gathering to the stupid people who do so. it's selfish, and your hurting other people. your lucky i'm not staff... i would if i caught you afk resource gathering not only delete the resources in your pack, but i would delete your keys. imo.

Cornbread wrote:Changes are fine and good. Changes are not fine when they remove a commodity from the market. We were told no AFK making money. All good, sounds fair. Well the flax change still allows EVERYBODY doing anything else to continue doing it AFK for profit and you can't sell bandages. Being mislead is not cool.

anarchy wrote:if this change was due to people afk. then maybe change the afk consequences. like for instance you get 1 warning. then ban, or delete all their gold. why hurt some of the other people who are following the rules because of a few people. i don't do bandies, or honey anymore, but i can see theses changes just hurting people instead of making the game fun for them.

side note: stop afk resource gathering to the stupid people who do so. it's selfish, and your hurting other people. your lucky i'm not staff... i would if i caught you afk resource gathering not only delete the resources in your pack, but i would delete your keys. imo.

walter wrote:For the discussion that followed, please check the global chat log on the given date/time.

That is my issue, walter. The only updates we receive are randomly through world chat. Its been nearly two years since the update log has seen a change.

he knows this because it was the last time he showered. peew... *you see anarchy run before he get's peeeekay'd*

Devlin wrote:

walter wrote:For the discussion that followed, please check the global chat log on the given date/time.

That is my issue, walter. The only updates we receive are randomly through world chat. Its been nearly two years since the update log has seen a change.

This thread is the new change log

P.S. Yes, a little bit snarky, sorry.

I'm sorry guys, unfortunately neither V nor I are able to maintain a change log for y'all. We only hear a bit here and there about what's gotten done, and we try to mention it in wc if there seems to be any confusion.

About the newest changes, I agree with you guys. I'd like to see more strict AFK rules and harsher punishments for violations. We made them a bit more harsh early in 2012 and I have not seen any noticeable decrease in AFK'ing offenses. No decrease at all, really. The culprits still just do not care about getting punished for AFK'ing. In fact, there are a number of players who get caught, log out until their jail time is over, set a reminder to page for their weapon back, and then immediately go and start AFK"ing again on a fresh weapon. I feel that our current punishments are not nearly enough of a deterrent, but it's not up to me.

Currently we are not permitted to enforce the AFK rules across the cloth or keg making processes, though I hope that will soon change. Punishing the many for the sins of a few doesn't really make sense, and hopefully the input of the players will be taken into consideration by the man in charge.

I don't always check this part of the forum as often as the others, but if you guys ever have questions about recent changes or concerns, you can page me directly and I'll help as best I can.

+Nyx wrote: I don't always check this part of the forum as often as the others ...but when I do, I give you the straight story and honest opinion. Stay informed, my friends.

I really hope that punishments can be increased as Anarchy said.
You get caught AFK-ing resources, the ones in your pack are deleted. You get caught again, all your resource holding keys are also deleted. Doesn't sound fair? Don't AFK gather?

You get caught AFK weapon leveling, first time is a day long ban, weapon lost for a week. 2nd offense, week long ban and the weapon is set to 0 after being impounded for a month. 3rd time, you are gone for a month and the weapon is destroyed. I think the first time the weapon should be Zeroed out and the 2nd time destroyed, but that's just mho.

Yes, before you ask, I KNOW things happen, need to answer door, family thing, need to pee. I get that. There is already a clause in the codex about that, mentioning the 10 minute rule. It's becoming rampant and something needs to be done about it.

ye agree with afking on varius stuffs , punishment need to be way harder and i suggest weapon/key deletion like a few others have mentioned

if you need to break off for whatever reason hit alt+f4 or use hiding (possible if your script doesnt cast when your hiding)

Yes, before you ask, I KNOW things happen, need to answer door, family thing, need to pee. I get that. There is already a clause in the codex about that, mentioning the 10 minute rule. It's becoming rampant and something needs to be done about it.

alt-f4

takes you longer to get out of your chair than to hit alt-f4. there should be no excuse to afk resource/leveling.

[off topic]

You get caught AFK weapon leveling, first time is a day long ban

Actually, if it's your first offence you get off with a warning. At least it was so for the resource gathering. And I don't know if the GMs keep better track of the warnings now, but it used to be much more lenient. Yeah, I got caught a few (4 to be exact) times AFK gathering back in winter 2011/spring 2012. Ashamed of it I am, not doing it anymore. But my point is - 3 times I got off with just a warning (it was a different GM each time: +Hina, then +Nyx and lastly +Jade), the 4th time I got sent to jail by +Jade (not jailed, just moved next to jail teleporter). So 4 times caught and I had basically no punishment. Not to mention the fact the auto AFK check caught me a few times back then as well. And the 'punishments' for it are not severe as well - an hourly resource gathering block, then 12h, then 72h (heard the 4th one was actually jail, but didn't go that far). Luckily I was one of the people that got the point and learned their lesson, but for someone less... scrupulous I guess, it's an invitation to doing it over and over again. If the 'cost' of punishment is lesser than what you make committing the crime, then no one will care about the punishment

Oh, and just for the sake of clarity - it's not an attack on the GMs. You guys do your jobs just the way you should. It's just the rules that are too lenient, especially to repeated offenders. I know it's a very friendly shard and it shows in the words of newcomers who are genuinely surprised by it, but I think as far as enforcing and breaking the rules it should be a little less friendly. Not sure if GMs keep statistics, but I'd assume the most numerous offender category are not the newbies who don't know, but the vets who don't care.
[/off topic]

I'd really like the changelog to at least list major changes. Changing the amount of gold a dragon drops from 100 to 110 is probably not worth mentioning, but changes in the champ rules - that I'd like to see. On one hand I can understand that +Colibri is busy enough having to work in RL and on the shard, but on the other - this lack of information seems to build (though not on purpose [I hope!]) the image "I don't care about the players". I know he does, but we get mixed signals anyway.

Ilsanor wrote:

You get caught AFK weapon leveling, first time is a day long ban

Actually, if it's your first offence you get off with a warning.

Not off topic -

Actually what I posted was in the same way as to what Anarchy posted, this is what I would like to see happen.

That is all.

Ilsanor wrote: And I don't know if the GMs keep better track of the warnings now, but it used to be much more lenient. Yeah, I got caught a few (4 to be exact) times AFK gathering back in winter 2011/spring 2012. Ashamed of it I am, not doing it anymore. But my point is - 3 times I got off with just a warning (it was a different GM each time: +Hina, then +Nyx and lastly +Jade), the 4th time I got sent to jail by +Jade (not jailed, just moved next to jail teleporter). So 4 times caught and I had basically no punishment. Not to mention the fact the auto AFK check caught me a few times back then as well. And the 'punishments' for it are not severe as well - an hourly resource gathering block, then 12h, then 72h (heard the 4th one was actually jail, but didn't go that far). Luckily I was one of the people that got the point and learned their lesson, but for someone less... scrupulous I guess, it's an invitation to doing it over and over again. If the 'cost' of punishment is lesser than what you make committing the crime, then no one will care about the punishment

We have always tracked warnings, everything is documented. However, with gathering there is a 10-minute reply window - which in my opinion is a bit silly. Why should AFK resource gathering/crafting be allowed a 10 minute afk and leveling not? Makes no sense to me. I can see gathering/crafting having maybe an extra 10-15 seconds to reply over leveling, as it isn't quite as large an issue as leveling. However it is quickly catching up in terms of how much it affects the economy and how many people are violating. Anyway, while you were 'caught' those times, they were all just slaps on the wrist as it were, likely because you replied within 10 minutes, so we weren't allowed to punish you in any way. That is the way the rules still read for gathering and crafting and why essentially nobody is ever getting punished for it at all. Awhile back there was a discussion amongst the staff about +Jade jailing someone for an AFK moneymaking offense (I forget if it was gathering or crafting) and Colibri ruled that it wasn't against the rules in a jailable way and ever since then the rest of us just haven't really been jailing for it. We do not enjoy getting overruled after the fact, so we just try to stick to what he has told us.

I would like to see the automated AFK gumps give the person about 30 seconds to type the answer and if they don't, it moves them to jail with an infinite sentence and notified the staff in our staff gump, so we can look up past offenses and set the correct jail time/etc. Otherwise, I think the system isn't helping enough to be worth it.

I agree heartily with something anarchy said in another thread today. Why are we so worried about offending the rule breakers? Why stress over whether they quit because of the harshness of their punishments? People who are upstanding players, who legitimately had an accident or a one-time afk problem (fell asleep at the desk, emergency etc) are unlikely to repeat the offense to even be exposed to the more harsh punishments. It's only those who don't care about the shard or the rules that will be punished by them, and why should we all cater to their demands rather than those of the playerbase who manage to play without cheating or breaking the rules? A huge part of what makes Excelsior stand out so far above all the other shards is the atmosphere and the great people. But that won't last if we give too much leeway to those who do not deserve it, as over time that affects the mood of the entire shard. The good folks will start to taper off and go elsewhere and the rulebreakers will invite their friends. None of us want that.

I wouldn't vote for account deletion/permanent ban for afk offenses except after perhaps the 5th offense. Off the top of my head, I think it should go something like this:

Leveling:
1. Warning & confiscation of weapon for 1 month.
2. Jail 1 week, confiscation of weapon for 6 weeks and weapon reset to level 0. Name & offense level posted in a thread on forums of AFK violators.
3. Jail 2 weeks, permanent confiscation/deletion of weapon. Name & offense level posted on forums.
4. 1 month ban, permanent loss of weapon, perhaps a gold fee as well. Name & offense level posted on forums.
5. Permanent ban? Several months ban? As well as posted on forums.

Gathering:
1. Warning & confiscation of all resources in pack of player and any pack animals out.
2. Jail 1 week, confiscation of all resources as well as all resource keys. Posted on forums.
3. Jail 2 weeks, confiscation of all resources in pack/pets/keys/bank/house, 5mil gold fee. Posted on forums.
4. 1 month ban, confiscation of all resources on the entire account, 10mil gold fee. Posted on forums.
5. Permanent ban? Several months ban? Posted on forums.

I also do not feel that offenses should "cool down" back to lower offenses unless it has been over, say 8months or 1 year since the last offense of ANY kind - language, behavior, AFK, etc. I do not think anyone who has violated to tier 2 or above should ever be able to decay back to a warning.

These are just ideas I came up with off the cuff, but something along these lines would be much more effective and serve as far more of a deterrent to rule violations of this nature than what we currently have in place.