Excelsior

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:18 am**

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:21 am**

I have never played anywhere other than here but when I read about using a garg pickaxe at fansites I do not see any mention of getting a runic hammer from the elementals.

To me being able to get the ore and runic tool from the same source is clearly unbalanced. Yes the plat runic would be hard to get from the bods but its supposed to be that way. Platinum ore would be just as abundant and it could be crafted with the lesser hammers. Which would make those hammers more usefull as well.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:43 am**

I don't see a reason to put the nerf stick on the crafters. In all honnesty, I possess a shop with multiple vendors and in the last few weeks, i sold well over 25 mil in goods. I have four crafting vendors: leather armor (etheral kits), weapons and jewlery (platinum kits), and fletcher (petrified fletch tool). All togheter they sold for about 150k, while my 8 other vendors sold more than 25 mil. Take the kits away from the crafters and they will have nothing at all to sell.

If something needs to be done, it's about balancing the drop of etheral kits when using the gargoyle knife. The gargoyle knives are harder to get, they come with less charges, they almost never trigger an elemental, when they do trigger an elemental, it is of a random intensity (from polar to etheral). If you compare to gargoyle axe, an elemental pops at least 50% of the time, you have a 100% chance of the highest intensity (petrified), and the axes are really easy to get.

Have a nice day,

Polar Bear

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:56 am**

TheWatcher wrote:The problem with removing runics is the effect it will have on what I believe is an already thin runic armor market. From my experience it is already a hard slog finding a decent vendor with only a handful regularly stocking runic armour. The removal of easy to obtain hammers will drive prices up as evident in the recent powerscroll market.

I think an improvement in the bod rewards will make people take up mining again and also see an increase in value of lesser ores.

I think a simple solution for lack of miners is to completely remove npcs selling iron ingots. The way it stands there will always be a ceiling price as "npcs sell em for 15".

TheWatcher

Actually, I agree with all of you for the most part.

I love smithing, always have. I have played four shards my entire life. OSI for 5 years. Private shards since then. This is the only one I have played that had the Ethy/Runic Drop, it is also the ONLY one that i cant sell EVERY piece of Plat armor i could make.. just as fast as it rolls off the hammer. it is the only Shard i have played where people use no other type of metal for armor.
I fill a If I fill a vendor with Armor.. i sell a few pieces, the rest sits there for a week or two, i smelt it and make a bunch more, after a week or three I smelt it... etc etc.. It is so plentiful that people only buy the VERY BEST (in their opinion

). I do not claim that removing Runics will be the answer, i do not claim to like the idea, it was just that, and Idea...

The removal of easy to obtain hammers will drive prices up as evident in the recent powerscroll market.

Yup, that was generally the Idea... Prices of Plat armor should be up there around two or three mil for a set.. as opposed to me seeing misc leftover pieces on vendors for ten K.. With Prices on Plat Armor up where it belonged, the average joe couldn't afford it at first.. he/she would be using shadow, or bronze etc etc INSTEAD of wearing an all out Plat Plate set when they are 5 days old....

I think a simple solution for lack of miners is to completely remove npcs selling iron ingots. The way it stands there will always be a ceiling price as "npcs sell em for 15".

What is there? 2 of them? They make no difference on the price, I am already selling Iron at 20 ea and cant keep the vendor stocked for more than 6 hours. I've been paying the noob miners 18 Ea for their Iron and happy to do so helping them get on their feet. Removing them would be fine with me btw.. but i don't think they will matter.

While i have no interest in seeing runic hammers go away from the eleys.. I am just trying to think of things that would bring the useless ingots back into the limelight. I knew that last statement would spur interest

Now stop bashing on my head and think of something better than what I have mentioned.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:05 pm**

Good points kniteprince!

I see the nerf ball flying around.

To me nerfed refers to a change that was made for what ever reason that somehow messes up the game.

I feel adding runics to the elys was/is a nerf. I dont know the reason they was added but the addition seems to have thrown a wrench in the bod and crafting systems.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:30 pm**

I still think that the runics are overvalued on the BOD reward table. Plat runics should be about 1200 on the chart and then the rest descending from there. Another forum post someone had suggested a Balancing Stone which was just like the Sharpening Stone but adding SSI; this would add another item at the top level of the smith BOD.

About the eles dropping runinc. I don't think removing them at this point would be good, but changing the drop to just a single use hammer instead of 5 uses might work. Another thing to think of is that eles are the only source of tinkering runics. We could add tinkering runics as BOD rewards.

I also like the idea of adding +gear for tinkers that could be smith BOD rewards just a little higher than the smith and mining gear. +1 tinkering gear could go in at about the 550 to 650 level and +3 gear at about the 950 to 1100 levels and +5 at about 1300 to 1350. This could fill in the spaces between the current level.

Here is some script segments showing moving the runics and giving ingots as a reward.

Code: Select all

private static Item CreateIngots( int type )
{
	switch (Utility.Random( 14 ))
	{
		default:
		case 0: return new IronIngot( 100 * type );
		case 1: return new DullCopperIngot( 90 * type );
		case 2: return new ShadowIronIngot( 80 * type );
		case 3: return new CopperIngot( 70 * type );
		case 4: return new BronzeIngot( 60 * type );
		case 5: return new GoldenIngot( 50 * type );
		case 6: return new AgapiteIngot( 45 * type );
		case 7: return new VeriteIngot( 40 * type );
		case 8: return new ValoriteIngot( 35 * type );
		case 9: return new BlazeIngot( 30 * type );
		case 10: return new IceIngot( 25 * type );
		case 11: return new ToxicIngot( 20 * type );
		case 12: return new ElectrumIngot( 15 * type );
		case 13: return new PlatinumIngot( 10 * type )
	}
}


public SmithRewardCalculator()
{
	Groups = new RewardGroup[]
	{
		new RewardGroup(    0, new RewardItem( 1, SturdyShovel ), new RewardItem( 1, SturdySmithHammer ), new RewardItem(2, Ingots, 1 ) ),
		new RewardGroup(   25, new RewardItem( 1, SturdyPickaxe ), new RewardItem( 1, SturdySmithHammer ), new RewardItem(2, Ingots, 1) ),
		new RewardGroup(   50, new RewardItem( 45, SturdyShovel ), new RewardItem( 45, Ingots, 1), new RewardItem( 10, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  200, new RewardItem( 45, SturdyPickaxe ), new RewardItem( 45, Ingots, 1), new RewardItem( 10, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  400, new RewardItem( 90, ProspectorsTool ), new RewardItem( 10, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  450, new RewardItem( 2, PowderOfTemperament ), new RewardItem( 1, GargoylesPickaxe ), new RewardItem( 1, Deco, Utility.Random(6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  500, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 1 ), new RewardItem( 1, GargoylesPickaxe ), new RewardItem( 1, Deco, Utility.Random(6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  550, new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 3 ), new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 2 ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  600, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 3 ), new RewardItem( 1, ColoredForgeDeed ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 3 ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  625, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 4 ), new RewardItem( 1, ColoredAnvil ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 3 ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  650, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 5 ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 5 ), new RewardItem( 2, Deco, Utility.Random(6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  675, new RewardItem( 1, ColoredAnvil ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 5 ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  700, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 6 ), new RewardItem( 1, Deco, Utility.Random(6) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  750, new RewardItem( 1, AncientHammer, 10 ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(7,12) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  800, new RewardItem( 1, GargoylesPickaxe ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(7,12) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  850, new RewardItem( 1, AncientHammer, 15 ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(7,12) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  900, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 8 ), new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 7 ), new RewardItem( 2, ChargedDyeTub, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,2) ) ),
		new RewardGroup(  950, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 9 ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 7 ), new RewardItem( 1, ChargedDyeTub, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,2) ) ),
		new RewardGroup( 1000, new RewardItem( 1, AncientHammer, 30 ), new RewardItem( 1, ChargedDyeTub, Utility.RandomMinMax(1,2) ) ),
		new RewardGroup( 1050, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 10 ), new RewardItem( 2, SmithersProtector ), new RewardItem( 1, Ingots, 10 )  ),
		new RewardGroup( 1100, new RewardItem( 1, AncientHammer, 60 ), new RewardItem( 1, SmithersProtector )),
		new RewardGroup( 1150, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 11 ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(13,18) ) ),
		new RewardGroup( 1200, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 12 ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(13,18) ) ),
		new RewardGroup( 1250, new RewardItem( 1, RunicHammer, 13 ), new RewardItem( 1, ArmorOfCrafting, Utility.RandomMinMax(13,18) ) ),

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:20 pm**

Another thing. Most of this post as had to do the smithing BODs, but in my opinion, the smithing BOD rewards are the most balanced and complete of the 4 crafting BODs. The other 3 need much more tweaks to get them filled out and balanced.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:04 pm**

amadman wrote:I feel adding runics to the elys was/is a nerf.

Here's some help with what "nerf" means. To nerf something would make it arbitrarily more scarce if it's a commodity, or less powerful if it's a skill or an item. Nerfs usually follow from an overabundance of whining.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:01 pm**

Regardless of what nerfed means to me or you does not change my point that adding runics to ely drops effected bods and crafting negatively.

As for the different bods being less balanced. I agree that they all need help but blacksmith being the most balanced?

Tailor and blacksmith bods would be pretty much equal and balanced if elys did not drop runics (I am almost positive runics were not being dropped by elys when this was designed). But tailor runics now make a better reward because they are somewhat harder to come by.

Another thing that makes some of the others better than blacksmith and tailoring is that they all give power scrolls.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:50 pm**

amadman wrote:Regardless of what nerfed means to me or you does not change my point that adding runics to ely drops effected bods and crafting negatively.

I think it helps a discussion remain clear and productive when words are used properly.

It's hard to remember back to my OSI days, and during many of those days there was no such thing as a runic, but I think ore eles always dropped runics once they were introduced. Certainly on every runuo shard I've played over the years, ore eles dropped runics. Otherwise they are too rare. Even with runics as they are now, there is not an abundance of good, crafted metal armor or weapons for sale that I've noticed. So how can you say that there are too many runics? Even with a runic you mostly make crap anyway. Expensive crap. Crafting is almost more of a hobby since the really good stuff is attained by other means. Sure, it's possible to craft a decent suit of armor, but you never see one for sale because they are not very practical to make. So you think that making this situation worse by nerfing runics will somehow make crafting better?

And if a runic isn't special enough as an ultimate bod reward, then for crying out loud suggest something else that will fill the bill rather than nerfing runics. Nerfs are such a backward way to try to improve the shard.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:13 pm**

I said it was probably another one of my not so popular opinions.

And I am not suggesting or expecting changes to be made to runics dropping from elys.

If runics have always dropped with this script then I guess I was wrong in my thinking there.

But the bod rewards seemed to make more sense that way. Since that is not the case I dont see how they ever seen it as balanced in the fist place.

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:04 am**

Tael wrote:
amadman wrote:Regardless of what nerfed means to me or you does not change my point that adding runics to ely drops effected bods and crafting negatively.
I think it helps a discussion remain clear and productive when words are used properly.

It's hard to remember back to my OSI days, and during many of those days there was no such thing as a runic, but I think ore eles always dropped runics once they were introduced. Certainly on every runuo shard I've played over the years, ore eles dropped runics. Otherwise they are too rare. Even with runics as they are now, there is not an abundance of good, crafted metal armor or weapons for sale that I've noticed. So how can you say that there are too many runics? Even with a runic you mostly make crap anyway. Expensive crap. Crafting is almost more of a hobby since the really good stuff is attained by other means. Sure, it's possible to craft a decent suit of armor, but you never see one for sale because they are not very practical to make. So you think that making this situation worse by nerfing runics will somehow make crafting better?

And if a runic isn't special enough as an ultimate bod reward, then for crying out loud suggest something else that will fill the bill rather than nerfing runics. Nerfs are such a backward way to try to improve the shard.

AFAIK the runics dropping from Eleys is part of Daat99's OWLTR script that adds the extra ores and woods leathers, Including the mules and the MOA champs among other things..
On OSI you got runics by doing bods. Bods sucked to get started on OSI, but once you DID get a few built up the ability to start a massive trading campaign was possible because there were so many people playing. this made getting them easier.. when you had the ability to trade with possibly thousands of other people filling a large bod was beyond any shadow of a doubt easier to do there than it is here.
i am not complaining about being able to get bods however... my complaint falls intot eh reward category... as an example.. I decided to see if deco items would sell.. so i have just sat down and filled out 12 GOLD 20 Exceptional small bods.. the reward being 50% chance of a copper runic hammer, OR a 50% chance to get a Decorative Item.. what i recieved for 12 BODS was 12 copper runic hammers.. and as far as i am concerned, thats total Bull....... I have always said i loved it here, and I do, but I am getting SOOOOOO tired of trying to make a living doing what i love to do when the system is screwed up.
it is difficult enough having so many worthless rewards/bods/ingots.. add on top of it the fact that you cant even get some of the rewards...

So you think that making this situation worse by nerfing runics will somehow make crafting better?

Your just looking at the top card on the deck without getting into the middle of the stack.. I am not all that thrilled with getting the runics off the eleys either, but the result, would be people using "lesser" runics, and increasing the value of all runics because they are harder to get. i have played on shards that did not have the runics dropping from eleys, on those shards you saw people using, and cherishing armor of all types and colors.. armor YOU call Junk, all of that stuff you craft that you consider junk would be in demand again.. OK, maybe not all of it, but a LOT more of it would be used rather than filling the trash barrel or getting smelted. Sometimes, what you want, isnt what you need. Sometimes what you like, and are used to isnt the best thing to balance a shard... I really don't see anything changing, so this entire convo is probably pointless.. I would like, if nothing else ever happens, to see the rewards fixed so they at least drop randomly like they are supposed to....

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:55 pm**

indeed... you said it kniteprince

Posted: **Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:10 pm**

erm.. i'm not a smart guy but i was reading this and wondering. why not make it so only fel side ely's drop the runic. that way people can't just gate in with a friend and they hit all the veins. then if people do remember or mark uoam with location, they will have to run to each one. so making let's say plat runic hammer's kind of rare. distance bring up all prices? right? or am i just being dumm?

p.s. plus, if you die in a mine most likely there aren't any healers nearby. making it more rare.

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:12 pm**

i have seen a few ppl complaining about the lack of armor for sale, and have been watching vendors with armor/weps on them.. usually they fold within a month, those that havent, are now selling Plat Runic Armor and weps for prices that would amaze and stun players from other shards... The above statement about producing "junk" prompted me to continue checking the armor vendors... examples.

Plat Runic plate.. arguably the best armor in game... mage Armor/Luck/LRC/LMC hit point increase... selling for 10k... in one week I have seen three pieces of plate sell on this vendor.. thats 30k.. i havent kept track of the other armor pieces, or the weps, just been watching the plate... there are some GOOD pieces, but they arent selling.. even priced at ten k... thats because people want only the very best.. as easy as it is to get runics.. they will go dig them, then run through 300 uses getting a single piece of armor thats "perfect".....
making armor and weps is what I do... or what I WOULD do if it was worthwhile. As it is, there are folks that see most of what they get from swinging a plat runic as "JUNK"... Almost nothing that falls from a plat runic should be "junk".. Plat runic armor and weps should be selling for 100k per piece, or more.. Armor and weps made from shodow, or copper, or other runics should be selling for 20 to 30k.. that armor should be what ppl use while they work to get better and better armor... as it is, you start the game, and within a week you already have the "best" player made armor you can get.
I even tried bowcrafting.. a really good bow with SC/SSI/DI etc etc sat on my vendor for two weeks at 25k.... 25K for a really good bow like that and it STILL didnt sell???
No one can tell me that runics are fine as they are...

Excelsior

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