Tailoring revamp

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Tufi
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Tufi »

No more tailoring till it's fixed. Hope other crafts fare better.
Ysara
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Ysara »

@Tufi Thank you for letting me know.

Can we maybe get the old system back in for now? It would be awesome to get some BODs done! Has anyone used the bag option in collecting their BOD items? I can use a razor organizer to put my stuff in a bag once it's crafted so if this works then we can use it at least! It would be 1 good thing that works out of the system!
+Arden
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

The fixes for cloth are waiting on the test server and will get in with the next restart
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

To clarify some things, the amount of leather you need to repair an item from 0 to 255 is 13, that gets increased if the item is exceptional or an artifact, and lowered if you are the crafter, as for other materials needed for crafting, for the moment we are NOT considering adding anything else to the repair requirements so all that is needed is Leather
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Yoda
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

Rhiemath wrote:Wait, am I understanding that repair deeds don't require us to be in proximity to a tailor anymore to use? If that's the case, what are they for? To supplement those without the skill to repair directly? Also, I'm hearing that repairing directly no longer has a chance of reducing the overall durability of our gear. Is this true? If so, most of my fears are without cause. I'll simply start repairing directly.
Interesting side note about this. the fact that repair contracts don't reduce durability, and sometimes add a point... well that is a uoex thing, most places the repair contract has double the chance of a point loss on success, and I have never seen a point add on a success anywhere else..

silver linings?
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lilbear68
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by lilbear68 »

with all this up in the air and many alternating stories and confusion I wonder if it wouldn't have been easier to just leave it alone?? as again I have not seen anything the shows how this will significantly improve the game play for tailoring.
before the fan base drop to their knees in praise of change for the sake of change lets wait and see for the real improvement
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Wil
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Wil »

Yoda wrote:Interesting side note about this. the fact that repair contracts don't reduce durability, and sometimes add a point... well that is a uoex thing, most places the repair contract has double the chance of a point loss on success, and I have never seen a point add on a success anywhere else..

silver linings?
Sorry you lost your leg but you should be glad you still have one left. Some places don't let you have legs at all!

Yes, that was an example of hyperbole. When one has to say, "It's still better than X," that means whatever it is got worse.

The new repair deeds are usable anywhere. As an addition to the old repair deeds (which aren't) they'd have been handy. As a replacement, they're a nerf. So sorry for those of you running around with a full set of Ethereal gear. Platinum users? You're up next.

-Wil
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by lilbear68 »

maybe a test server could be used in order to make test drives to smooth the transition out instead of just arbitrarily jamming at us with a 'good luck on this one'
personally I got no dog in this fight but the more complicated it is the fewer new players that will stay long term and while maybe the coders can figure this out not everyone is a coder
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+Nyx
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Nyx »

I've seen a lot of negativity going around about all of the crafting updates, and a lot of times it's being blamed on me needing this stuff for Elysium. I wanted to clarify that:

The crafting system overhaul, meaning the code that runs the crafting systems, that was being rewritten in anticipation of Elysium. Originally I had imagined Elysium crafting would be stand-alone, but +C and +A felt it was better to rewrite the crafting core code from the ground up, so that it was able to be customized as we go along. This rewrite will allow for easily adding all the new Elysium recipes and resources/ingredients later on, and for more interesting crafting requirements (higher skill caps, skill gear, items that "process" for a long period of time like making wine in brewing will).

That said, the rest of the changes are NOT anything to do with Elysium, and I had nothing to do with any of that. +C and +A decided to make these changes while they were coding the core changes, they aren't part of Elysium crafting plans. I didn't force them to add (nor did I ask for, nor do I agree with) these crafting delays, the change to the repair deeds, etc. Please stop blaming me for something I not only didn't do, but mostly agree with y'all on :lol:

That said, I would like to see the repair deeds need regular leather instead of the higher-end leathers, perhaps just needing 10% more per tier. I like that they were made to require a bit more resources, but the way it is now is IMO a mistake that really hurts the new players who need to use ethereal leather. Granted, one could use the menu repair option, but I really dislike the idea of forcing all players who need this gear to raise these skills just to afford to repair it. It's not a good thing, to essentially force a newb to pay 3500+ gold for a single repair for a single piece of their armor which may have taken them a long time and a lot of effort to get, or be forced to work a skill they maybe hate in order to get a 'free' repair. Generally speaking I don't like that there are now SO many types of repair deeds. Once these changes presumably got added to the other crafting disciplines, then there would be dozens of different types of repair deeds and it's silly IMO. I'm of the opinion that there should be maybe 2-3 types per discipline, tops, and that those deeds should require resources - but reasonable numbers and types of resources. Needing ethy leather for a repair deed is cruel and unusual imho, especially to the newbs.
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Rhiemath »

That just summed up everything that I've been feeling and hearing from other players +Nyx. :) You simply put it in much better words than I'm capable of. *High 5's*!
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Tufi
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Tufi »

CLOTH CRAFTING ALL FIXED!!! Any kind of cloth is a go. That's all cared about. I need a new wardrobe. TY Arden!
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Yoda
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

+Nyx wrote: That said, I would like to see the repair deeds need regular leather instead of the higher-end leathers, perhaps just needing 10% more per tier. I like that they were made to require a bit more resources, but the way it is now is IMO a mistake that really hurts the new players who need to use ethereal leather. Granted, one could use the menu repair option, but I really dislike the idea of forcing all players who need this gear to raise these skills just to afford to repair it. It's not a good thing, to essentially force a newb to pay 3500+ gold for a single repair for a single piece of their armor which may have taken them a long time and a lot of effort to get, or be forced to work a skill they maybe hate in order to get a 'free' repair. Generally speaking I don't like that there are now SO many types of repair deeds. Once these changes presumably got added to the other crafting disciplines, then there would be dozens of different types of repair deeds and it's silly IMO. I'm of the opinion that there should be maybe 2-3 types per discipline, tops, and that those deeds should require resources - but reasonable numbers and types of resources. Needing ethy leather for a repair deed is cruel and unusual imho, especially to the newbs.
you know I second this entirely, sentiment behind the design, and application, if it was regular leather and it graded amount by item type that would not only help with the simple craftable leathers, but some of the more complex, allow you to weight the repair for say shaman's sleeves or other artifact leathers etc.

the types of repair deed thing, I don't mind the functionality of using resources, I do mind having a repair deed for each type of leather. one thing that crossed my mind. shouldn't the deed essentially just drive the repair, and the resources are to drive the operation of the deed. so to craft, no resources, but to use .. thats when you apply the resource burn. If you will allow a slight elaboration.

what this means is you'd have a tailor repair deed. and when you go to use it on an item much like a debit card at a gas pump or store.. it says "ethy leather item please provide x leather to continue, so it has its resource as a currency, and looks up from an ini type thing (whatever format that says ethy leather, not exceptional $X, and it has entries for exceptional $X, Id likely figure it out and brainstorm with an ini, then abreviate it to be weights and a base value for all of the options, and use an equation (oooh scary addition and or a little multiplication in brackets) and essentially you end up with 1 item per skill. from a software design perspective generally its better to do this type of granularity as an invisible back end process, rather than have a spread of item types to cover the same function, but this is uo, and uo loves to end run logical deisgn patterns. But in theory it would let you have finite granularity for all types of repairs within a craft skill, while using 1 item to drive it vs several. The same sort of resource as "fuel" mechanic has been used successfully (well aside from the questionable need for the item in the first place, the ps bag) with the powerscroll bag and blue diamonds.

An analogy to describe the folly of a multi item solution, from an end user perspective. pretend a for a moment that a repair deed is a restaurant. The person doing the repairing is the diner.

its the difference between sat down and handed "A" menu with every item on it you can eat/drink/etc.
and being sat down and being handed a stack of menus.. ie: This is the small diet coke menu, this is the large diet coke menu, this is the chocolate cake desert menu, the fettucini alfredo menu, the hamburger and fries menu (but wait you can substitute the fries for a salad, here is the menu for that)... you get my point.

but the system as it stands now, although driven by absolute realism, successfully delivers that, but in truth it shows why there is software designers and software engineers. sometimes programmers live in a systems space, nuts and bolts. running with a designer etc often prevents following roads too deep. say there was another guy who was I dunno code oversight, chances are alot of these questions would have ended the day saying. "this isn't a good path to follow" I am just as guilty with no designer to restrain me, as a programmer it's something I constantly have to be aware of. A programmer can build anything. A designer/oversight decides whether its worth building in the first place.. nothing critical other than programmers be programmers.
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Opopanax
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Opopanax »

I like the update to tailoring and it is definately a positive change and it must have taken many hours to concieve and code in the first instance. Not everything works perfectly when it is launched, but we are luckily part of a system here where feedback does have a fairly quick affect on things, so I was a little surprised to see that there has been quite a lot of negativity around this revamp.

I have been playing around and testing the tool and wil continue to do so.

I came across something odd though, but not sure if anyone else has experienced it.

When setting amounts and using the craft button on the bar next to the name and through the menu, sometimes I'm getting more items than I asked for. I checked and the resources are all being used, but the number of items the tool is outputting is not quite right. First time it happened it was just 1 or 2 and I thought it was weird, then asked it to craft 20 leather caps and I ended up with 48! Tried again with sashes and instead of 10 I got 16, not entirely sure what to make of this as it doesn't happen every time, anyone else had this?
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Yoda
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

what is interesting the results that you are talking about the overages all appear to be base16 divisible represented in decimal (base10)
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Wil
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Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Wil »

Yoda wrote:An analogy to describe the folly of a multi item solution, from an end user perspective. pretend a for a moment that a repair deed is a restaurant. The person doing the repairing is the diner.

its the difference between sat down and handed "A" menu with every item on it you can eat/drink/etc.
and being sat down and being handed a stack of menus.. ie: This is the small diet coke menu, this is the large diet coke menu, this is the chocolate cake desert menu, the fettucini alfredo menu, the hamburger and fries menu (but wait you can substitute the fries for a salad, here is the menu for that)... you get my point.
Hello,

Your analogy does not fit. These pictures demonstrate:

https://www.coca-colafreestyle.com/
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=mjn51v&s=5

The pictures illustrate part of the design error for the new repair deeds: No UO vendor has been coded to implement a repair-deeds version of the first picture and the generic UO player vendors hold too small a supply to be effective at implementing the second picture in a UO-context. And of course neither picture shows something portable...

Regards,
Wil
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