Just a thought about ED pricing & auctions...

[Dirtybook]

Why not make EDs (Excelsior Dollars), a steady buy Price of 60k? While making the sale price 45k? With the no deviation from those numbers as a set/fixed price, and with no absolute ceiling with how many are on the [exex. (The players who populate this server, like consistency.) I have never seen a day where the [exex, has ever run out of EDs in the years I've been here. (If it did happen, then I was obviously taking a break during that time.)

This, in theory, would slow down just how far someone will be willing to donate. (Something many might call "Malicious Donating".) Without taking anything away from players donating for themselves. By forcing 15k less per ED on resale, many looking to make liquid assets will either have to sale at that price on the [exex, or find willing buyers. Which in turn would take a lot longer.

I do not see this as a stretch. Considering many facets of this server have been mitigated in this direction, in order to solve problems. (Doom Gauntlet, and Doom artifacts, just to name a couple of examples.)

This in turn, "could" slow players down at commandeering entire auctions, in spite of others looking to obtain the rare items the auctions offer.

Another idea, would be to make many auction items account bound. (Something I have some what mentioned before.) Yes, resales are favorable, but, lets take a deep breath, and be honest here... Many players gold farm, and get the items first, and raise the price. While keeping the best only for them selves by having the gold to cherry pick. If you want to reduce the server inflation, due to an abundance of gold on the server. Make "Equipable" items, account bound. (Include items like Footprints as well.)

This modification is to help an issue in the way of "Ethics". It's giving more solid guidelines to be adhered to, rather than the person with the "Biggest Wallet", or has the best "Gold Farming Program", gets everything. "Buyer's Remorse" would be the next issue for the super wealthy on this server, with this type of change.

I am sure, that your new frame work that you have been working on, will be an additional way for players to spend there time and in game money. The ideas I have suggested, lay before you. Do with them what you will. I'm going back to hunting..

[arni]

all that would do is hurt new players as instead of paying 24million for relayer they would have to pay 30million.

current selling price is 48000 per ed buying ed has nothing to do with it

[Silent]

Since EDS are a commodity they can only have a steady price if a majority of ED owning players enter what is called a market cartel. Otherwise you will always have offer/demand ratio. The main reason our economy is fragile is simply because ED price varies by what you do in-game and "out-game" rather than simply by playing. The best way to keep a commodity like this stable and avoid massive dumping is simply to limit the supply which would be the most unfavourable outcome for our administrator. (basically every e-mail account would be limited to a X supply of EDs/year despite donated amount).

Also: The more new players you have the more EDs will be consumed by relayers and etc. which would reduce "dollars" from circulation and increase its value. That or you reduce donations, which seems to be far off. Currently, if no one consumes EDs the likelihood of price decrease for future auctions is very high since demand is rather low.

The problem: huge amounts of liquidity in a server that lacks demand.

_________________________________________________Now that the current situation is detailed________________________________________

Lets say that the price is fixed at 60k: How would this work? players would place sell orders and wait in line for someone to buy?

And the sell price at 45k: Were you suggesting a burning mechanism? lets say you donate 100 euros, you could instantly "burn" the ED, they would disappear from circulation and instantly gain 45k/ED ?

Thoughts on this: Auctions could still be rigged by donations but the commodity invested would not vary bellow a threshold, players could still "play the market" by direct selling EDs between 45-60k margin. Don't think it would benefit anything honestly.

Auction manipulation: I've always been against this not only to support the freedom of trade (Huge part of ultima online and all rpgs) and to allow players to get/buy items from auctions that they were not able to participate due lets say (time zones/real life). Honestly, auctions are not really that important for most of our player base. Also, they serve the purpose of mass money burning, so if a players gathers money from all players by selling EDs and then dumps it, well, overall they served their purpose. We just lack ED consumption in my opinion.

Tip for all newcommers: Wait for the next auction, gather cash, buy ED at low price and gear up/have fun

[Dirtybook]

Many Valid points here, but I do see some ability to post some opinion on them.

Arni, you are correct, it is nice to purchase Relayers at 24 million, vs 30. However, do not mistake a current "Windfall", as a standard. 60k per ED was rather in range to the standard for EDs over the last 4 years, due to steady donations and supply & demand. Thinking in a manner of current accessibility, would only slow any thoughtful initiative to take place, in order to correct the marketplace itself. It would not hurt new players, only give them a consistent value to base there progression from.

If you recall from a different post, the Admin has already stated his desire to raise the prices on how many EDs items like Relayers would cost. Doing this instead, would be virtually the same thing, without his need to raise prices.

Silence, I will begin by saying "Yes", burning the ED is exactly the idea. However, if you go back and re-read a little bit of what I wrote, I also suggested "No absolute ceiling on how many are on the [exex." Which if a more defined definition of what I meant, would be, "They never run out."

Also, I would like to point out, the lack of things to actually "Spend" on when it comes to the commerce of this server. No new items, or quests are being added. Past small things, such as Auction, occasional give aways in TC, and items that are currently being built by a small group favored by the admin. (Such as the Eclipse deco.) After a while, most players will end up with the same deco, that is currently being recycled from IDoCs. So the interest is low. That is not the fault of the player base it's self.

My self, and many others have given recommendations to add more to the server, and to balance things in the way of game play. As well as adding new items/quests. However, it falls on deaf ears. So you are correct Silence, ED demands would be low when it came to auctions. However, this is just a fix for market values to become an ethical standard. The rest, such as new content, the admin has to do. Without new content, the server will not have a higher demand for the market, or the EDs that come from them.

Hope this helps.. Going back to hunting.

[Dirtybook]

Almost forgot to mention.. Alot of things on paper seem disagreeable. However, do not forget the "Human Factor" of how it will be used, or abused. As things currently are, the abuse seems to outweigh the uses of how the systems of this server are currently set up. This is only an ideal on a "mitigation tool", to assist in evening the scales. Nothing more.

Many things can be abused by the Human Factor I'm mentioning. A small handful, or even 1 person, can find a way to tip the scales in their favor. Which in turn, forces problems onto others. There is no gain, without loss. Something many have forgotten in recent years, globally.

[HotMale]

Isn't a fixed price of 45,000 gold potentially creating an advantage for generous donors, allowing them to accumulate vast amounts effortlessly?

If someone donates €10,000 and receives 100,000 ED in return, the donator sells 50,000 EDs for 2,500,000,000 gold and still has 50,000 EDs left to sell.

However, Once these EDs are purchased by players at an average price of 50,000 gold, these players might either exhaust their gold reserves or lose interest in buying more EDs. Consequently, the price of ED could plummet towards zero unless the donator is willing to wait a considerable amount of time to sell the remaining 50,000 ED to genuine players.

Let's consider another scenario. +C uses the GM command to infuse the game world with 10,000,000,000 worth of Gold. Following this, he sets a buy offer for 200,000 ED at 45,000 per ED

Now, our diligent donor can instantly sell his entire 100,000 stack of EDs at 45,000 per unit, effectively generating 4,500,000,000 gold seemingly "out of thin air."

I don't see anything wrong with donations, and I don't mind if someone buys up everything. After all, in the end, basic relayers obliterate everything just as swiftly as the weekend warrior with the 50,000€ donated gear.

[Muolke]

Isn't a fixed price of 45,000 gold potentially creating an advantage for generous donors, allowing them to accumulate vast amounts effortlessly?

If someone donates €10,000 and receives 100,000 ED in return, the donator sells 50,000 EDs for 2,500,000,000 gold and still has 50,000 EDs left to sell.

However, Once these EDs are purchased by players at an average price of 50,000 gold, these players might either exhaust their gold reserves or lose interest in buying more EDs. Consequently, the price of ED could plummet towards zero unless the donator is willing to wait a considerable amount of time to sell the remaining 50,000 ED to genuine players.

Let's consider another scenario. +C uses the GM command to infuse the game world with 10,000,000,000 worth of Gold. Following this, he sets a buy offer for 200,000 ED at 45,000 per ED

Now, our diligent donor can instantly sell his entire 100,000 stack of EDs at 45,000 per unit, effectively generating 4,500,000,000 gold seemingly "out of thin air."

I don't see anything wrong with donations, and I don't mind if someone buys up everything. After all, in the end, basic relayers obliterate everything just as swiftly as the weekend warrior with the 50,000€ donated gear.

I think you make many valid points.

While anyone can go out and donate X number of euro to get EDs, the market still dictates (somewhat) the price of EDs. This is a good thing. The more supply of EDs there is the lower the price. This is why the price of EDs dropped below 30k right before the last auction.

The issue here is that it has happened that the price of EDs has been fixed by Colibri on ExEx by him adding a bunch of EDs to ExEx in order to impact the price of EDs. This is a terrible thing to do. Let the market dictate the price of EDs.

I’ve been closely following the UOEX economy for years now. It’s very fragile and different from real world economy.

The economy, price of EDs, unlimited donations etc are all very troubling but…this isn’t the top issue UOEX faces. As another poster already brought up, the lack of new content, fixing of existing quests, lack of adequate GM presence, and lack of regular auctions and other events is what’s really causing the shard to die.

Anyone that argues to the contrary (of the shard dying) is simply blind. If you compare player activity from 5-6-7 years ago to today it’s clear as day. If you compare the prices of new/mid-tier items it’s clear as day. If you look at how long it takes for an item to sell…it’s clear as day.

[Eremite]

Lots of ideas to treat symptoms and not address the cause.

The auction system creates a lot of problems amongst players but they've already been talked about to death, so I'll skip reiterating them.

Let's consider these points:
- The purpose of auctions is a gold dump and is pretty much the only one.
- Most contention is around rare items that only appear in auctions.
- Donation money is needed to keep the server going (The costs are actually quite cheap to run a UO server not counting paying yourself)

My suggestion:
- Remove the rare/coveted items from auction and just do deco/etc to keep the auction tradition going.
- Add a stone with prices similar to auctions for those items.
- Add additional gold dumps as needed.

Big donors can still pay to win so Colibri's bottom line isn't affected. I daresay the donations would be more reliable than bursts around auction time and would incentivize attracting and keeping new players instead of catering to the most entrenched.

I don't expect any of this to happen, of course, so I'll avoid writing a book this time. I'd be glad to enumerate a ton of gold dump ideas if the idea gets any traction.

[Melkor]

I liked it when ED where 50k each, was that way for years. 25 mil a relayer. Decent gold payout for donation but not crazy. Seems right

[Lach]

Everyone's got an opinion about it they are mad because they sell all there crap for it to new players and then get mad when they can't make more money off it. Kinda sad tbh & funny because they want whats best for them and only them. Then sky rocket prices when someone trys to help others think i seen batwings go from 1mil too 2.5m because they greedy lol. But yeah donations are the problem.

[Muolke]

Everyone's got an opinion about it they are mad because they sell all there crap for it to new players and then get mad when they can't make more money off it. Kinda sad tbh & funny because they want whats best for them and only them. Then sky rocket prices when someone trys to help others think i seen batwings go from 1mil too 2.5m because they greedy lol. But yeah donations are the problem.

Donations aren’t the problem. You’re the problem. It really is that simple.

[Lach]

don't forget it, you sound just like that baby in your profile picture