Champion spawn participation reinvented

Vote on the shard-related matters and/or give your arguments.

Do you support this change

Poll ended at Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Yes, with the optional part
26
37%
Yes, but not the optional part
11
15%
No, leave it as it is.
34
48%
 
Total votes: 71

User avatar
+Colibri
Administrator
Posts: 3958
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:08 pm
Location: static void Main

Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by +Colibri »

Here's a thought... The idea is that any champion spawn can be participated in, no more voting system. But with a few twists:

- The gold you receive is proportional to the level you started the champ in. If you enter at a low level you would get much more gold than if you enter at final stages. For example, one player would start at level 0, another would enter at level 5 and another at level 10, of a total of 16 levels. The first player participated at 100% of the spawn, the second about 70%, the third roughly 37%. That's a total of 207%, so we divide all the percentages with this number... So the first player would get 48% of the gold, second would get 33%, and the third 18%. Though joining on the final level, or when the champion comes out would no longer be possible.

- The chance to get a powerscroll is proportional to the level you started. From the first example, and simplifying the calculation to where only one powerscroll is dropped at a champ, first player would have a 48% chance to get it, second 33%, third 18%. Though in reality there would be multiple powerscrolls, so the first player would actually have a chance to receive two, even three. And the third player might not get any, or if lucky might even get two.

- Champions would be beefed up proportionally to how many players are at a spawn.

- Only one pet per player would be allowed. More than one pet from the same player would either make the champion gather great strengths and scare the pet away... or even one-hit kill it.


- OPTIONAL PART:
The champion spawns would be all linked together, they would no longer spawn individually on a timer. Instead, they would spawn completely randomly, where the frequency is determined by the number of players online. That makes for an even champs-per-player ratio in the fluctuating numbers during the day, and during the year. Camping wouldn't be as promising as before, which in a way is a good thing but it's also a bad thing. Keep in mind that the spawns would have different chance of being activated.
For example: there's 200 players online and 30 minutes since the last champ spawn start. Considering the numbers, it's time to activate a new champion spawn... Out of all the champion spawns that are active out there, MOA marble island is randomly chosen... and is activated.
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard

Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up! ;)
(Old Colibrian proverb)
User avatar
+Colibri
Administrator
Posts: 3958
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:08 pm
Location: static void Main

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by +Colibri »

Oops, seems like it's not possible to vote if the thread is locked, so I've unlocked it.


Just please stay on topic, and keep it cool. Remember, this is about making the game more enjoyable for all.
It is not about increasing taxes :D
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard

Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up! ;)
(Old Colibrian proverb)
SnaponTools
Expert Scribe
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: Sugartown, Louisiana
Contact:

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by SnaponTools »

well IMO only thing that needs to be changed is since (right now) everyone that does damage to champ boss gets a PS take the voting system out. No need to be greedy and say no to peeps since everyone gets a PS. i think the new ways would just casue most compaining in chat
All Mighty
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 7:22 pm

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by All Mighty »

well seeing how i cant reply and cant vote i just want you all to know what im thinking about the whole thing. first and formost i am a tamer. my pets are my damage and my bow is used for enemy of one and thats about it. if the fact that i can only get one pet out there on the boss i think that the ppl who have donated and relayed more then one thing should have thier powers cut. i have nothing relayed but have 9 pets of which i dont use any more then 3-5 at best now adays. and of that my pets dont do more then like 60 points of damage. ppl like Snap On and Anarchy who hit the boss for way more then me and my pets combinded aka hundereds would be way more OP then anything i could do and if you are going to nerf my pets that i paid my ED for i think that gear should be nurffed as well.

the gold hey i dont do champs for the gold some times its nice and some times it sucks but thats not where you make the gold in this game so hey cut it all i dont care about that.

the PS drop rate could suck that is just kinda BS sorry thats what it is. ppl do the camps and cry all day long about the fact thay get in or not. all it would take is one person still just afk sitting there and not paying attion or anything like that and then you still get nothing i wouldnt want you in because then there is a chance your talking my 80% chance to get a PS and cutting it by like 15% thats just insain last man being like 6th would only stand a like 10% chance to get a PS and would have cut the 1st guy there down to like 10% thats jsut robery.

all it would take is a few easy tweeks. first get rid of the thing asking if ppl can get in we all get a PS now no need to keep ppl out now. the spawn times are supose to be random make them that way the 4-6 hour timer is nice but lets face it i run champs all day and and get like i would say 10 -15 PS a day on a weekend. i dont know why others need to cry about them if anything the price that ppl sell them at needs to drop. Snap On does a real good job of keeping them cheap then other ppl buy and resell them. i know that it happens with many things that is somthing that they should fix.

the champ getting buffed is a good thing but you take my pets out the game i might as well not go because i wouldnt do enough damage to get a PS if i did go.

i like the fact that the champs could be linked but lets be honest the only one that is a problem is Oaks most of the guilds have the times down and it does only take a few ppl. but the few ppl that are doing him are being kinda tight pocketed to with the skulls. from my understanding when doing the harrower there is an unlimited amount of stat PS's that drop but they are jsut trying to keep it small to get better odds of a +50. you want to do somthing that would be a bonus to the champs make the skull drops random that way its any one who does any champs chance to get a white skull.

im sure that there is more to say but my guild is dieing so i need to save them laters.... :-)
Eben
Passer by
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Eben »

So whats the goal for changing the rules here, just trying to reduce the amount of powerscrolls dropped per day?
IMO, voting system could either be taken out all together, or bumped to the last wave only.
The champ should get more armor and hit points dependant on how many participants there are.

Gold doesn't really matter, the wya it is, is fine.
Everyone that kills the champ should get a powerscroll.
Kagan
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Kagan »

Every time I hear this champ argument start up, it comes down to two arguments, Pets and voting. How about adding some new champs that are very pet friendly and make some of the current champs, either no pet, or non-pet friendly? I guess the new champs would be a step up from the newb champ. As for voting. How about the first X number of people to arrive get in. PERIOD. If they allow 10 and you are number 11 sorry about your luck. Cut and dry and not up to people voting you out. Just a few thoughts on the subject. I am sure everyone will also hate this option. I think some people wont be happy until every time a champ spawns, everyone on the shard automatically gets a PS.
User avatar
Albino
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, U.S.A.

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Albino »

I may be alone on this and thats fine with me. I'd like to try out +Colibris idea for a while (couple of weeks) and see if i like it. Everybody complains about the current champ system. Let's try something new. This may also make 2 and 3 slot pets more useful (something that is also a subject of strong debate). I'm just saying it sounds interesting to try out. +C's put a good amount of thought into this it seems. If in a couple weeks or less, if it doesnt seem to work out for people, I'm sure +C would revert back to the way it has been. What's the harm in trying something new?
chaosdjinn
Passer by
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:46 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by chaosdjinn »

I have just been on the shard a couple weeks but I have noticed a couple things. Now I voted no to the changes but I have a couple reasons. First the system is now that if you do damage to the champ you pretty much get a ps. I like that because just like many people I am just getting started and while my bees are well on the way they are not buzzing along yet so the only way to get a decent ps is champs. So that part does not need to change. The voting script was put in for a good reason but it is now being abused by a few to lock people out of champs where they only get ps. So while fixing one problem made another one, and with the change to the ps drops then what difference does it make everybody gets a chance at a scroll. Any system either should reward having many people enjoying the play or everybody be on a even playing field. Not a system where the more people that participate make it harder for people to get ps will just create a system where a greedy few profit and noone else. I also understand that one of the products you offer is a ps while it is not usually a bad idea to channel your customers dollars to certain items you really have many useful products without this one being one of the choices. Now to the optional part the idea of only having one boss up at a time is not so great because there will be times when there will be so many people at a spawn that some of the champs will last only a matter of minutes they pretty much do that now. Also the suggestion of boosting the champ's hit points is a good one too. I had a single pet attack a champ today and he made a few hits before he died but we did not earn a ps. The other champ I was in he went down so fast that I could not even try to get a hit on him. So boosting the hp would make it to where folks could stand a chance against a ton of pet or heavy hitting players giving them a chance to get a ps which is what everybody wants.

Anyway that is my 2 cents I am pretty much a new player not been playing about a month so I feel the pain of working things up which is fine but when it comes to the champs things need to be evened out some.
Drac
Passer by
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Drac »

Well for me, my pets are my weapons. I let them do the front line fighting and i stand back and just use my bow or magic.
Taking my pets down to 1 would give me good reason never to do the champs ever again.
Dj Sticky
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Dj Sticky »

Leave it.

I posted this when I was very very new on the shard (less then 7 days old) and I'll say it again.

I had no issue getting started on the champ circle. Both getting scrolls off each champ, figuring out how to work the circuit so that I was at most champs before voting kicked in or getting to know the veteran champers so that they would let me know if I was missing one and would vote me in when I got there.

I'll tell every one right now, if I don't know you, I'll vote no to you late 3rd wave and on. If I do know your name and I voted no it's most likely because my first impression of you was this. Ask in [c for hours and hours if any champs are up instead of going to check yourself, show up super late and then complain about how unfair it was that you weren't voted in.
User avatar
PaPa
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:40 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by PaPa »

here is my 2 cents and i rarely give it here.

I love the optional part just that alone would make the champs better

As for the pets part i think if you did it as not how many pets but how many pet slots. example bio is 3 pet slots and imps are one so 3 imps would make it more even with the pets.

so let me ask this does amount of damage depend on chance of drop? example if the first player only does very little damage do they still get a better chance then the second person who did like 80% of all the damage threw out the champ? would player one still get 48% and second would get 33%?????

Im not voting i think there needs to be a change but i dont like the options up there


if you put the optional part only i would vote that
Aliver
Novice Scribe
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:19 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Aliver »

I must say I don't think the way champs are done now is necessarily bad, but I do think it creates a sort of "old boy's club" where if you're not part of the regulars, you won't get voted in. That makes it hard to break in for a new player, and let's face it, the shard will only thrive when making new players feel like they have a chance at success.

My biggest complaint is when i'm in a champ with low hp's like doom or tera, and I'm working my buns off to get that last candle to flip while others are just camping the champ... and when it does flip, i have to sift through 25 pet bars to target and wind up only getting 4 hits on it and NOT getting a PS. I think boosting the HP's based on the number of players and limiting to 3 pet slots would definitely help in that situation.

I also like the optional idea, though I think that at any given time 2 champs should spawn simultaneously based on the number of players online instead of one champ... that would give peeps a shot to get into another champ if the one they go to is already full. Keeps people guessing, and keeps them moving along in game instead of moping and complaining in chat that they didn't get in.
Zhivoi
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Zhivoi »

Current champ system imo ok. I think its only needed to kick "afkers", "stealthers", add range check for 200 tiles, and idea with one pet per player sounds very good.
Eben
Passer by
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Eben »

IMO, limiting the amount of pets isn't a good idea. This pretty much reduces the viability of using nobles at a champ because you take away pack instincts, and the fact that they have lower str due to said pack instincts.

It would be accomplishing the same thing if the champs HPs and AR scaled depending on how many people were in attendance.

As of now, there aren't problems getting PS off MoA due to the high HPs and AR, as everyone can get in and do enough damage to receive a PS before it dies.

---

It seems as if the optional part is sort of a package deal with the first; you would have to reduce the amount of PS given at any single champ if you were to increase the frequency of champ spawns. If we just stuck in the optional part, PS would be far more common than they are now, and findning a champ thats up would be more luck based and one would have to constantly be making the runs to find a running champ(thus giving a large guild or group of players the advantage due to the ability to spread out to check for champs that are up).
User avatar
Viola
Adept Scribe
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:48 am

Re: Champion spawn participation reinvented

Post by Viola »

I think the optional part is interesting because I've heard numerous rumblings of frustrations about the spawn rate not being supportive of the current population. That's why a lot of high population games have instances. Of course, UO isn't made for instancing, and it's not like we're at critical mass with our current population. So, I think an increased spawn rate for champs based on the current population is a good idea.

I'd like to see respawn rates increase based on population in general, but I have no idea how difficult that would be to implement.

Speaking completely as an observer and never a participant, I haven't killed a champ ever and don't ever really want to, but I know most people do hunt them. I think that the rewards based on how long you've been there participating is another good idea. The vote system from my observation is ticking people off. Before the vote system, people just walking in after not doing the grind work, wailing on the champ, and getting the scrolls ticked people off. Lots of things about champs tick people off. Again, this is my view as an outsider, but I see and hear the results, even as champs are happening, of people purposely excluding others from champs. There is a great deal of pre-meditated asshattery involved. There is also a thing where if you do not vote at all, the abstinence from the vote vetos the person trying to join the champ. So whether you vote no or don't vote and it times out, the person is excluded.

Now, I fully understand that people who are known to not help with the early work, who just sit back and wait for the druid to do their druidy goodness, or who come at the last moment, probably don't deserve to be invited in. However, in this system, it is more merit based, and it will help curtail the tamer hater, which is nice. :) People have been asking for that for a long time. It's fair as long as tamers are not penalized for not being massive DPS without their pets since a tamer not having the benefit of pack instinct could suck. However, if reward ratio is based on the time the person put into the champ and not who hit the champ the hardest, that's okay. But then people who hit harder without pets will still cry that they deserve more. Alas! No love for the tamer.

I like the idea that your receipt of or lack of a powerscroll will be based on your timely attendance/participation and on RNG luck, not because someone has a bunch of super pets or because you let someone in at the last minute and they got your scroll.

Now for people who run in packs, got champs on lock, and want to control the champ spawns and be able to exclude people, they will want to vote no on this because that suits their play-style. They put in the time to check spawns and they want the dominant rewards of that. I understand that point of view.

However, even with the yes + optional part, the people who regularly check champ spawns will find them more often, regardless of what timer they're on. They just won't have exclusive rights to them.

But anyone who has been left out of a spawn they think they deserved to be in, anyone who ever whined about someone dropping too many pets and getting all the PS (old system), anyone who worried that letting someone in would lower their own chances at a scroll, anyone who was ever frustrated because there are too many people competing for the same limited spawns, they should vote yes with the optional part. With a guild, without a guild, if you find a champ spawn going, you can help and have a chance at getting something for it. It won't matter who you know or who likes or dislikes you, and if you can pull your weight, you get a fair chance. That seems pretty decent.
Locked