About the pets

[Mayar]

Hello,
recently I became interested in the custom pets we can have here - and I was surprised by the lack of information about them on the wiki and the forums(or my search-fu is weak). That's why I am starting this topic so anyone can share information about them.
For instance a few days ago I red in GC about a pet called Cait Sith - it is an amazing kitty with the ability to summon pixies while fighting - but it takes 3 slots - so no instant two of them ... (Dear Santa+, I know I was a little bit naughty this year(but just a little) - but if you bring me a bonus pet slot - I pwomise I will be a goodie-goodie next year. Pweatty pwease? Oh - and I will also pwomise to halp me wife with da laundry and not to slack in da kitchen ... )

Yesterday I tamed another kitteh - a Holy cat - looking to its stats I presume it is a strong caster pet - but my fluffy is not trained ... so that is only an uneducated guess.

I am curious about so called nox steed - what is the difference between it and the nobles/mules (besides the slot cost)...

What is a Wyrmy wyrm and the other lizards of that family - and does their diet includes enthusiastic newbies like me?

So if anyone have knowledge about pets specifically customized on our server - please do tell about them - what do they do ... where they can be tamed/acquired, etc. ...

[Melkor]

Whatever pet you go with, a freshly tamed one won't be that good. You breed them to make them better. There was a guy named Highroller that bread almost everything, I'm not sure if he still plays. Read about breeding on the wiki for more information.

By and large there are only three pet types that the shard historically found useful. The Noble Steed and the Mule are ones that come from the wild and are breedable. Fairly easy to find ones that are already bread and are powerful. The other is imprisoned pets. They are imprisoned in a crystal. They are ferret, squirrel, and dog. They are by far the toughest pet, however they are not breedable and need ointment to raise up there stats. Imps don't take a stat loss when they did, the others do. Read up on the wiki about "pack instinct" and ointments.

Oh, there is bio engeneered pets too. They can be made many ways, but the best ones look human and wear gear. They have more hit points then a imp, but do less damage. They take 3 slots. They cannot be shrunk, they take a loss to their poison skill when they die. Info on wiki about them too.

[Yoda]

highroller still plays from time to time he is in my guild but I think he is near his boredom ceiling

[+Veritas]

Funny this was brought up, because +Nyx and I were just recently discussing the need to make some modifications to the current pet system. Imprisoned pets have pretty much killed that market, and before that it was noble steeds. The way I see it, there needs to be some drastic changes if we are going to see diversity in pet usage again. I miss the days of actually seeing people use frenzied ostards.

My thoughts:

-Make every single loss incurred by stat loss recoverable by either adding more ointment types to cover all losses, or removing the current losses that are not covered by stat loss.....OR......making the amount of stat lost at 2%, or in 2 random areas instead of across the board.

-Base pets with 1000 hit points should be 1 control slot (No way nightmares in their current state should be 2 slots)
-Fire-breathing pets with 1000 hp should be 2 control slots, or 3 control slot pets with fire-breathing should have 1500-2000 hits
-Beast bio-pets should either be reduced to 2 control slots, or hits increased to 4 or 5k, or some other feature that makes them appealing to use (able to shrink?)

...and time for the gut punch. Imprisoned pets need to have a drawback...even if it is just one. I say this knowing I will get a good deal of flak, but that is okay. Lets be honest with ourselves though, imprisoned pets dominate the pet world. New players only use non-imprisoned pets as a substitute for when they get imprisoned pets, and then that is what they stick with. It is hard to compete against a 200% damage pack instinct pet that receives no stat loss on death, takes 1 control slot, and can be shrunk. Plus (Nyx's opinion) in a magical world of dragons, orcs, ogres, hydras, and an assortment of other scary beasts...squirrels are at the top of the food chain?

Also, some transparency and consistency on the success rates of breeding at generation levels would probably be welcomed with open arms.

Thought's?

+V

[Gaara]

Funny this was brought up, because +Nyx and I were just recently discussing the need to make some modifications to the current pet system. Imprisoned pets have pretty much killed that market, and before that it was noble steeds. The way I see it, there needs to be some drastic changes if we are going to see diversity in pet usage again. I miss the days of actually seeing people use frenzied ostards.

My thoughts:

-Make every single loss incurred by stat loss recoverable by either adding more ointment types to cover all losses, or removing the current losses that are not covered by stat loss.....OR......making the amount of stat lost at 2%, or in 2 random areas instead of across the board.

-Base pets with 1000 hit points should be 1 control slot (No way nightmares in their current state should be 2 slots)
-Fire-breathing pets with 1000 hp should be 2 control slots, or 3 control slot pets with fire-breathing should have 1500-2000 hits
-Beast bio-pets should either be reduced to 2 control slots, or hits increased to 4 or 5k, or some other feature that makes them appealing to use (able to shrink?)

...and time for the gut punch. Imprisoned pets need to have a drawback...even if it is just one. I say this knowing I will get a good deal of flak, but that is okay. Lets be honest with ourselves though, imprisoned pets dominate the pet world. New players only use non-imprisoned pets as a substitute for when they get imprisoned pets, and then that is what they stick with. It is hard to compete against a 200% damage pack instinct pet that receives no stat loss on death, takes 1 control slot, and can be shrunk. Plus (Nyx's opinion) in a magical world of dragons, orcs, ogres, hydras, and an assortment of other scary beasts...squirrels are at the top of the food chain?

Also, some transparency and consistency on the success rates of breeding at generation levels would probably be welcomed with open arms.

Thought's?

+V

I must say, i agree, would love to see other pets used too, and imprisoned pets are very dominant at the moment, but i don't know how i feel about stat loss on imprisoned pets... I spent millions on ointing them, wouldn't like to see them getting into a condition where they need to be replaced.

Also, i feel like some pets at the moment take too many slots when comparing them to the 3 dominant pet breeds (imprisoned, mules & nobles) such as nightmares and even dragons/drakes... Decreasing some 3 slot pets to 2 slot would definately make them more usable/used.

Shrinkable bio sounds tempting, but i wonder if it makes them too over powered? Would prefer seeing more HP vs shrinking, but then again, the existing bios will be quite worthless compared to bios with few k's more HP.

Oh, since we are on the topic, what's the deal with pets healing their owner? I only know of echee and cu sidhe, though i suppose cu's only try to resurrect and never succeed in doing so. Would be nice to see some (more) pets aiding the owner with beneficial buffs/spells, not just healing

Peace, Gaara

[Adrycks]

I agreed that the pet world need to chnage a bit. I would like to hunt with other pets..but like you said what is the point if my imps are maxed and they don't suffer any loses when they die. I'd like to take some wyrm with me or the ostard are kool too.

it would be nice if the pack instinc would work even if the kind of animal you have are mixed. Like firebreather could all join in pack instinct and such. so i could hunt with 3 differents animal but still get pack instinct.

Evolution and changes is what makes the world go forward....

drakis

[Melkor]

I like the idea of more Hit Points on Bios, keep the slots the same. Although it would be nice if there was a way to add the hit points to the bios already out there.

I'm not a big fan of stat loss from imps. i'd rather see their power nerfed a bit.

I'm with +Nyx, I'd rather see people walking around with a big bad dragon than a pack of ferrets.

I never got into breeding, but from what i hear the fail rate is pretty bad. Best to talk to HighRoller about that.

I'd like to see breeding and breeding of a variety of pets be something more active on the shard.

[Yoda]

realistically I don't think you can do this by diminishing the imps, youd have some serious opposition from many,

keep in mind as I am a pet breeder its in my best interest to say otherwise..

I think the fix is to make things other than imps more attractive via new powers, more hitpoints, specials etc..

if you took the current 2 and 3 slot pets and gave them each something unique, boosted hitpoints a special etc often that would be all it takes..

[Alex]

I like the idea of changing the dynamics of imps. When I started, I used a pack of 5 frenzied ostards. That being said, I wouldn't want to see any changes to imps since i have 6 maxxed imps with 1500 oints spent on each. I think several other players are in the same boat on this one. I'd rather see increases or changes to others like you state to make them more attractive. It would be a nifty idea. But it needs to be well thought since there is a lot of gold and effort invested in the imps in today's UO economy, I fear there is not much one can do with imps being at the top of food chain.

[+Veritas]

I wouldn't advocate the idea of a nerf of imprisoned pets, at least not the already owned ones. Well...I know that anything done to, at, or near them beyond how they are now would be seen by at least a few players as nerfing. The idea of a temporary "reimprisonment" was tossed around. Upon death, the imprisoned pet is moved to the player's inventory in the form of a crystal and cannot be released back into battle for a period of time. Also, there is the idea of a much larger skill loss in areas that the imprisoned pets can regain from continued battle experience.

I can see buffing up current pets as an area of majority agreement. Nightmares need to deal more damage with their magic, imps (As in the Imps, not imprisoned pets) would be cool if they cast high damage spells and had high magic resists, the bone beetle actually casting spells. Maybe have an archer pet. There are other ideas that I won't disclose at this time *teasing smiley face* =)

Keep in mind that I only brought up the idea of messing with the imprisoned pets because I am concerned about the lopsidedness of the pet aspect of this shard, just like staff is currently looking into ways to make magic a viable primary attack method.

+V

[Devlin]

It would definitely be nice to see more than mules, nobles and imps running around. Even the occasional swamp dragon, as ugly as they happen to be, is a welcome sight nowadays.

Toying with stat loss probably won't be enough to get people to shift away from mules/nobles/imps. There will most likely have to be some changes regarding both pet stats/slots taken. However, this opens up the possibility of a new, imbalanced pet emerging and replacing imps. To try and avoid this, I've grouped the pets into various categories. Each category could be improved uniformly, which may reduce the chance of OP pets (on paper, at least.)

The current groups are Tank/Caster/Packie/Other. Tank pets would receive a boost to HP and starter stats. Casters receive a boost to their ability damage, magery, or Intelligence (something to increase their damage.) Packies get a boost to Dex/Stam to increase attack speed, as well as a boost to movement speed, similar to Nobles. The Other Category is mainly custom tameables (mules, nobles, imps, wyrms, and steeds,) as well as cats, dogs, etc. Most of these will require individual tweaks, or nerfs in the case of Imps (but that's another post.)

Below are the groups. These may not be complete and some pets may belong in different categories. Examples: I put Unicorns in the Tank category because they are poison resistant. Also, its a mythical creature. That's gotta count for something in a fight. Scorpions are classified as Caster/Packie. They could be Tank because of their poison immune, but they also can poison, which is a damaging ability and could disqualify it, depending how its classified. Drakes could be a lesser dragon and receive a 50% bonus instead.

Tanks: Hiryu, Swamp Dragons, Unicorn, Gaman, WWs, and some beetles.
Increased HP to 2k. To fit as a tank, the pet must be large and not have a damaging ability.
Casters: Lava Lizards, Nightmares, Drakes, Ki-rin.
Increased damage. To fit as a caster, the pet must either actively use magery or possess an ability which can cause damage. This includes fire breath, poison, actual weapon abilities (some have CB/bleed attack,) or anything else.
Packie: Hellcats, Ozzies, Spiders, Wolves.
Increased Dex/Stam and movement speed. To fit as a Packie, the pet must have pack instinct.

Hybrids:
Tank/Caster: Dragons, Cu Sidhes, Rune Beetles, Ice Worms.
1.5K HP/small boost to damageTo fit, must be large and have a damaging ability.
Tank/Packie: Bulls, Frenzies, and Bears.
1250 HP and a small boost to dex/stam. Maybe a small movement speed increase. To fit, must be large and have pack instinct.
Caster/Packie: Hell hounds, Scorpion, Imps, Firesteeds.
Small boost to damage, dex/stam, movement speed. To fit, must have a damaging ability and pack instinct.

[Devlin]

The other aspects are breeding and Imprisoned Pets.

Breeding should see some improvements:
-Some pets should get more ability points per level (Tank class would need this.)
-Ability to dump all points with one click
-I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Success rates are awful.
-Increase breeds per character per 12 hours to 3 or 4.
-Introduce a cap to the number of times you can breed pets with a friend. Make it 2-5 times between characters per twelve hours, so this is only used for breeding pets with 3 slots. (That is, if 3 slot pets are kept.) Allows for easier breeding and adds a level of rarity/importance to the 3 slot pets, as they are harder to breed (and should be, as they will most likely be stronger, should they remain in the new system.)

A large nerf to Imp Pets wouldn't be met kindly. While improving the existing pet system may close the gap, the lack of stat loss and inordinate amount of damage done means that imp pets will still probably reign supreme. I liked the idea of imp squirrels going to your pack upon death, whereupon they would have a delay before they could be unleashed again. Somewhere around 90-120 seconds seems ideal; just enough to set you back but not enough to delay you entirely.

Some other ideas:
-Increase the amount of lore needed to control imp squirrels past 120, so +Lore gear must be worn to command them.
-Special leashes needed for them, which cost a bit.
-You can't releash them for five minutes after taking them out (Might pose a problem, but would prohibit bouncing around killing stuff quickly.)

The idea of changing stat loss and pet death in general is sound as well. The current punishment is 5% stat loss, 1/2 ability points or EXP. The ability points one is rather excessive and the EXP penalty doesn't seem to be much of a punishment. Change it to a guaranteed stat loss of 1-2%, but only on a single stat. This applies to HP/Stam/Mana, Dex/Str/Int, and all resists (so there is a chance of a small loss.) One death doesn't pose the worst problem in the world, but multiple begin to add up. Pets decline gradually over time, instead of plummeting into a pouch to be donated. Could also remove all different classifications of ointments (str, resist, etc) and just have one ointment, which, upon use on a target, gives you the option of what to increase, much like the breeding system. Both of these changes might have a positive effect on the ointment market.

[+Veritas]

I am at work, so I will just briefly respond and try to reply in detail later.

I am worried about the imprisoned pets still being the only pets people want to use after any change is made (if made). I am also worried about taking measures to raise everything else up to the level of imprisoned pets because its too taboo to touch the imprisoned pets. Sure, it may bring other breeds back into the spotlight, but what would those pets need to be? Pack instinct fire breathing dragons with 1k hp? No easy decision either way.

Personally, I think imprisoned pets in their current form shouldn't have been introduced in the first place. Why? Because they completely remove a stress aspect of the game. "Am I willing to jump in this new area and risk damaging my pets that I will then have to buy back up to par?" Risk/Reward, that is a crucial aspect of any MMO or adventure game. Not only do they not lose stats, they also deal the most damage. So...who cares if I just toss them into the mosh pit of balrons? There will be no cost from doing it.

Also, I would have to insist on the death delay to be more than 1 or 2 minutes, if that is indeed the route to take. I could see a quick death-to-pack as a way to camp spawns with even less risk. Leave pets somewhere to fight a mob and they die? Oh well, they just went back to your pack and are ready to be whipped back out after you go grab a snack.

I don't know, very conflicted.

+V

[+Nyx]

We have always known that making changes to the imps wouldn't be met kindly. The problem is that they should never have been implemented the way they were, without any real regard for how it would affect the pet aspect of the game as a whole. Sometimes, the only way to fix a huge oversight like that is to take the overpowered thing back down a few notches.

Generally, of course, we hate to "nerf" anything. But the only other option in order to balance the pets is to bring all other pets up to par with imps, which means all the monsters in the game would *also* need to be brought up to par for everyone having super powerful pets. And then we have to worry about relayers being more powerful, too, to still be desirable vs just using pets. Plus, what about the new players who don't have relayers *or* beast pets yet? So then we'd have to worry about how quickly they can get these items in order to not quit because everything really IS too difficult and the gap too large for a newbie to want to overcome and stay with Excelsior... it's just not a viable way to handle it.

That leaves us with bringing the rest of the pets up a little bit, and adding a malus to the imps. I don't know how I feel about stat loss on death for them, since it does cost many players multi-millions in gold to fully oint them and that would cause irrational levels of aggro toward us. My primary suggestion had been the unshrink delay after death. I'd also vote in favor of reducing their overall damage bonus, and overall hitpoints by a slight margin (we're not talking a 50% cut here). I would also make pack instinct an option for mixed types of pets, but it would not be an easy option to enact (either a long/difficult quest or an expensive purchase). I'd make imps harder to obtain, and breeding more functional to compensate for the increased demand for other types of pets.

But, well, everyone is in favor of fixing the pets, and imps are going to have to take some sort of hit in order for that to happen. Everyone should just accept that now and think of what sorts of malus they'd be willing to see on their pack of stupid ferrets. Yes. I hate the small furry creatures as beastly pets thing. Terrible idea. Loathe it utterly and completely. Elysium is going to get one heck of a bad mammajamma dragon for a pet option, just so I can see less of these ridiculous imps running around.

[+Veritas]

Elysium is going to get one heck of a bad mammajamma dragon for a pet option, just so I can see less of these ridiculous imps running around.

I was going to have a butterfly that has rainbow breath and inspires it's targets to volunteer at their local soup kitchen.

+V