Magic on Excelsior

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Geriatric
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Geriatric »

you simply make the argument that magery isnt over powered

clearly magic arrow is over powered

you also bring up the argument of followers...
on basic servers energy vortexes were alot stronger than they are now (and i dont ever recall them taking 2 follower slots, unless it was a fairly late change to the game)

but hey since your arrogance has granted you the fortune of clearly knowing more than me its understandable you consider any argument that i present beneath you and a waste of your time

step down off your high horse
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Wil
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Wil »

Isn't Energy Vortex the current preferred way to take down Kronus? Maybe I misheard but I thought someone figuring that out was why the price of Bios and organics collapsed. Doesn't exactly sound underpowered.
Dirtybook
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Dirtybook »

Magery isn't over powered. I've owned an Ancient Yumi (a player just gave it to me, and left the server), and I was able to hit for way more damage than Magic Arrow does, (or any other spell I cast does) and I was at 190% SDI at that time. (hundreds of damage per normal arrow). Then I had the pleasure of using a Demon Slayer (player crafted made by Turnabout) Yumi, with 2 hit spells on it. (Again, hundreds of damage a regular arrow) A Yumi user with equivalent SDI to what I have now, "will" out damage me. Especially if they have enough Dex to shoot at full speed. They make me look like an infant learning to walk.

A Whirlwind weapon, even just a Blaze of Death, puts my magic to shame. So if you think Magery is over powered, then wow.. you really are not paying attention to how this server is geared.. and my assessment of you just looking for a fight is not just "spot on", it's "dead on". But, "Gas Lighting" me does nothing. As for my "high horse"? I will go right ahead and point out you don't like being wrong, and you get ugly when someone points it out. You are also replacing the word confident in my knowledge base, for arrogance, at your whim, when you think it will unbalance someone, should they not agree with you.

As for telling you to play a mage, before you tell someone else how to, that goes with everything. I'm not going to tell a player with a Yumi, and whatever skill they attach to it, how to play. That is there business, and frankly, I have experience as an Archer on this server, but not long enough to know the full ins and outs of it, vs the player base that uses them regularly. It would be like telling Wil how to breed his pets, or telling Turnabout how to treasure hunt. Or telling Praise how to run her guild, when clearly she doesn't need that help. (She won Player of the Year) So like wise, don't question the only mage of the server on how he needs to play. I can handle a talk over ideas, about what could be improved with the skill I use the most, but you "do not", have enough information to be teaching me, a single thing. (Other than you are grumpy. Thumbs up for pointing that out.. yet again to me...)

And to Wil, Revenants are the preferred method to killing Kronus. I have seen moderate success with people using a couple Revenants, and about 10 EVs, to halt Kronus, so he is distracted, but that's not the norm.

Final understanding, just to clarify. I don't think Magery needs a boost, because it can be paired with so many skills, that can make its use more "Viable". In the long run, it will end up a secondary skill, for ranged use, and buffs, and fields mainly. While I will be using a Whirlwind weapon (likely a Black Staff, for that Mage look) for my primary method of combat. With that combination, (as well as many others) makes Magery a good skill "as is". Call me arrogant if you want, but making it stronger, would be a serious over sight. The damage it will cause will be "Useful" around about 260 to 300 SDI, and beyond, but will it beat a Yumi? NO.. will it beat a Whirlwind weapon? NO! It will always be in 3rd place with those other 2 combat methods, but that's fine by me. The benefit I am looking forward to for going this route, for my self? I won't need to switch to a bow if I want to hit something at range... that it.. just that 1 thing makes me like WW/Magery more than the WW/Yumi combo. Just function. Nothing More. (100% accuracy doesn't hurt either.) :geek:

I won't respond to you anymore Geriatric. Find a fight some where else.
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Wil
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Wil »

Dirtybook wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:12 pm
And to Wil, Revenants are the preferred method to killing Kronus. I have seen moderate success with people using a couple Revenants, and about 10 EVs, to halt Kronus, so he is distracted, but that's not the norm.
Necromancy Revenants instead of Magery Energy Vortex. Got it. Thanks for the info!
Geriatric
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Geriatric »

how are you accusing me of looking for a fight?
i presented an argument for why i think energy vortexes are extremely underpowered
and you saunter over with the response of "i know more than you so shut up"

for the record i never once made the argument that magery was over powered, if anything ive been making the argument that it is underpowered
comparitively though magic arrow appears to be an over powered spell
but hey if you just wanna lump everything together and generalise who am i to stop you

there is a large imbalance in the spells

you've found a playstyle that works for you... great,
maybe you dont want magery to be changed at all because then you wont be the only mage

you sound like daffyd from little britain (enjoy this little ad hominem, because im just meeting you at your level)
you've called me an idiot, you've told me to shut up
i never once attacked your character, only your argument, but that wasn't good enough for you

so if you wanna fight dirty lets do it, lets rocky V this
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Cerrera
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Cerrera »

perhaps there could be increased coefficient of casted spell compared with spellhit on weapon, added some effects to polymorph and increased power of summons (depend from skill level) but i hope it would be done with strong sight on balance. Cause it could end with just another all mages server, and that will just move everything in to another shelf.
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Wil
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Wil »

Cerrera wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:48 am
perhaps there could be increased coefficient of casted spell compared with spellhit on weapon
Yeah, it is a bit off that spell hits on a weapon are effectively a lot more powerful than a spellcaster. Sort of like it's a bit off that weapon repair deeds are more effective than direct repairs by legendary smiths. If nothing else, the speed with which the combos can land compared to what a caster can cast.
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Johnny Warren
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Johnny Warren »

This is a weird thread. Initially I liked it because it was a cool guide for an alternate way to play in the pre-220 dex stage, and perhaps beyond. But then it turned into a case of everyone's argument or comments on magery were strictly inferior unless they were by OP, and should not have been typed. If you wanted to write a guide, and not a forum thread, should have titled it as such and asked people not to reply.
Geriatric wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:47 pm
how are you accusing me of looking for a fight?
i presented an argument for why i think energy vortexes are extremely underpowered
and you saunter over with the response of "i know more than you so shut up"

...

you've called me an idiot, you've told me to shut up
i never once attacked your character, only your argument, but that wasn't good enough for you
Dude blocked me in game for this reason too.
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Dirtybook
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Dirtybook »

I blocked you John Warren, for you making sure you showed how displeased you where that my ideals didn't match up with yours. No person can be 100% correct about all things, even you. Listening and finding common ground, is "not" your strong suit. You will stay there for that reason. Also, you clearly didn't read what Geriatric wrote in the way of back and forth arguments, and that he was looking for a reaction, rather than anything constructive. Reading and Comprehension skills are important, JW. (Learn them.)

Anyhow, I thought about it, and the only way to make Magery better, would be to allow spell books with Slayers. However, the only way to make it on the same playing field as what melee/archer players have to pay into there equipment, would be either spell books with stats and Slayers attached, or Deeds to Attach a Slayer to spell books only. (Donation Room, for EDs.) Past that, I don't see any way to balance it.
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Johnny Warren
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Johnny Warren »

That's certainly one, uh, version of what happened. I'll do you the courtesy of not posting any of the PMs... I spent a couple of days helping and humoring you, being kind and giving you advice on how to get past the players giving you grief (you can go back and read the PMs in portal.uoex.net if you think I am just saying this, read the first 5 to 10, see how I spent a long time defending you and being kind?). Trying to get you to see a way to enjoy the game, as soon as I disagreed with some of your thoughts on stuff you began with the condescending low blows and personal insults. Accusing me of being a sheep because I didn't agree with exactly what you said. Kind of what Geriatric said, well, exactly what he said.
Dirtybook wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:33 pm
Reading and Comprehension skills are important, JW. (Learn them.)
Very true, friend, very true. In fact, I do it for a living (I am a teacher). Since reading and comprehension is actually in my field of expertise I'll leave you with a couple of quick hints to improve yours:

The word "there" denotes a place or position. The word "their" means ownership of a thing or attribute.
Dirtybook wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:26 pm
"Know your enemy, there weaknesses, there strengths, and what works and what does not.
So to fix this it should be: their weaknesses, their strengths

In a similar vein; the word "your" refers to ownership of something, you use it in this sense correctly every time (as in the quote above, well done), but you need to use the word "you're" to abbreviate "you are".
Dirtybook wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:48 pm
Unless your actively playing a mage, you really shouldn't criticize someone who does it actively, "All the time". I may know a few things more than you do. (With what I have written here, I clearly know more) ....... Go play a mage before you tell someone how it "should" be done.
So in this example, you mean to abbreviate "Unless you are actively playing a mage" so you should write "you're".

You can also see the condescension, and insulting tone right here in those last sentences. Geriatric makes some points about his views on the weakness of some spells, and in fact agrees with some of your points you've raised, then asks a fairly inane question in the previous post and you take this tone. He doesn't tell you how it should be done at any point in that post. Only one person was looking for a fight here. You can see from the analysis (it's there for you to read) that I am good at comprehension as well as reading.

Now that we've sorted that, and to get the thread back on topic, I like the way you play. It's why I defended you for ages in WC when you first started and since your return, as well as spending a few hours supporting you when you were cross with the haters via PMs, before the bizarre out of the blue ignore. I think the MA spam is highly effective due to the fast cast rate and low mana cost. With more SDI it could do some real damage. Have you done any analysis on whether it is more efficient to cast MA as fast as possible or use slower spells like E-bolt? How many MA's can you get off for a single E-bolt? What about a flamestrike? It would be cool to see a table with the efficiencies of the spells laid out. Number of spells in a 10 or 60 second duration, how much mana it used and how much damage was done. Use a slow, high HP target like a Saliva so they don't die under the barrage.
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Dirtybook
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Dirtybook »

Correcting some ones typing skills, is not a true sign of intelligence John Warren. If you where a "teacher", you would know that one. Secondly, I am going to tell you the same thing I tell everyone who cares to fight with me now days. "You are wasting my time..."

Believe what you want, your only annoyed that I don't care to deal with you, and that I won't bend a knee to you. You are a little to full of your self. Maybe you should get a real hobby. (shrugs)
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Wil
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Wil »

Dirtybook wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:17 am
If you where a "teacher", you would know that one. your only annoyed that I don't care to deal with you, and that I won't bend a knee to you.
He has a point. If you don't like what someone says, attack the idea not the person. And please don't presume to tell someone else what THEY feel or think. You'll certainly be mistaken and it's almost unforgivably rude.

Also, were not where and you're not your. Quoting from Back To The Future, you sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong.

I think it's cool that you're trying an unusual play style. i enjoy hearing about it. The "argumentum ad hominem" I could do without.
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Muolke
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

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Melkor
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Melkor »

I could think of something to say, but I stay out of these threads nowadays

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Johnny Warren
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Re: Magic on Excelsior

Post by Johnny Warren »

As I said, I'll do you the courtesy of not posting the PMs. I'm out of this one.
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