Auction?...... Input?.... update?

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qbf
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Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by qbf »

So, I am hoping to strike it lucky, usually every few years when there's been a deep lull in input into excelsior from the boss man I make a thread saying AUCTION in the title and then a day later there's a thread by +C announcing an auction.... These have always just been lucky timing for the most part so.... *Crosses fingers*

On a serious note though... the following is a quote from the end of the the Roadmap - Part 0 topic +C started in announcement board:
+Colibri wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:57 am
Roadmap part 0
In conclusion
I'm not concerned about what activities we'll have in November, I'm concerned whether there is steady activity and progress in let's say 2025.
I wish I could give a more precise time frame when things are going to be happening, but as it is with the 50-90 rule, and non-repetitive tasks, it's unpredictable. But anyway, there's the light at the end of the tunnel, so it's time for me to make this post.
I totally supported, and continue to support the concept of stability and longevity over a fancy new bells and whistles.

I also understand there's a lot going on in the (real) world right now, it's all "pretty well rooted", to use an Aussie expression.

I hope that all is well in your life +C and that your young daughter is growing up into a lovely person.

That quote talks about activity and progress in say 2025, we are halfway there and it doesn't really feel like we're making progress. People have replied to the Roadmap thread, pleading for part 1 to be released. We get a small sliver of info saying "I won't unplug the server yet", and nothing more. My son (who is a gamer like his dad) is coming to the age of being able to sign up to an mmorpg. I always thought 5 years ago I would get him onto UOEX and show him how awesome old school RPGs are. I don't want to sign him up to a dying server and have him hit the wall like I have come to realise that I have already hit. This thread is going to sound like a complete whine from me, and I apologise for the offence. I have always tried my best to stay positive on the forums (when not trolling scrubs) and particularly in relation to +c's actions as we play for free on his server. But I kind of feel like the community is collapsing. The forums are almost static. Gameplay has been static for a few years now. Even the thread that promised information about where we are eventually going to go is now static. There's not even talk of any further progress, let alone any progress.

There was a lovely bout of action over the December - January period, and then this server has become dead quiet. It feels like +c presses go on the october quest and then the december quest, drops a grand auction and all us addicts hang around for another year, waiting through the other 10 months for something to happen. Even the halloween and winter quests have the same old rewards that we all have hundreds of collecting dust in boxes now.

There are cheaters harvesting resources and worse and there's very little policing, let along proactive input from our 2 staff. I recall +J's graball events in random towns, +C hosting multichamps, +V's hunger games and awesome events like the invasion of moonglow and other parts of the umbris story arc. I remember seasonal hunting events, regular auctions and team CTF events. Even the more modern, buggy, seasonal quests gave us some change. Even +A hosted a cool world boss event recently that was fun and didn't seem hard/buggy to do. Those days are long gone. I do pity the newer players who never got to play in those team events or GM led unique events.

The end of the above quote says; "there's light at the end of the tunnel", I feel like we're still well and truly still deep in the metaphorical tunnel, possibly engine failure, waiting for roadside assistance.

I understand posting this will result in a big blow to any credibility and respectability I had left here, it does sound like I am just whinging now... but I have always tried to support +c's actions and UOEX in general when these threads inevitably come up. Feel free to browse the back catalogue of "the shard is dying/dead" threads and read my posts, you'll see the evidence. But despite the cost it will have to my reputation, I feel it must be said. In 2019 I posted a thread about the stupid and archaic system that lets players that no longer even play here hog and hoard the available hues so the rest of us can only use the remaining crappy hues that are left. 3 years later and many people calling out to just remove that system (not even code a new one, just release the hues), even replying this year in 2022, and no traction or discussion. 0 progress.

I'll end with a direct question to +C:

Will you post Roadmap part 1 at some stage in 2022?



-John Warren, 12 year veteran and supporter of UOEX.
Last edited by qbf on Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auction... Event?... Input

Post by Muolke »

It's no secret that i've been a pretty harsh critic of Colibri in the past 2-3 years. Not because of his actions (except for jailing me and giving me 100 tasks for writing "do you like poo" on the message board of a player scamming other players in his silent auction) but mostly because of his inactions.

I don't want to get into a tit for that about what could've, would of, should of...

All I want to know is if you have no time to give UOEX or if you simply don't want to give UOEX the required time to run the server then why not just pass on the reigns to someone else? It's clear that UOEX just isn't a priority for Colibri. That's fine, everyone is free to make whatever decision they want about their life...but why keep stringing along hundreds of other people in the process and giving them false hope? I'd rather you just say "I'm not going to invest any considerable amount of time or resources into the server and what you see now is what you get" if that more closely aligns with his intentions.
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Re: Auction... Event?... Input

Post by qbf »

Muolke wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:37 am
I'd rather you just say "I'm not going to invest any considerable amount of time or resources into the server and what you see now is what you get" if that more closely aligns with his intentions.
I guess this is what I am seeking in making this thread. I understand and am fine if that is the case. I can at least plan my gaming and where I use my gaming time that way. I would love to know what the short, mid and long term plans are for uoex. A follow up to the roadmap thread, writing part 1 would accomplish this, I think. Just any form of communication about the future direction of the shard is what I'm asking for.
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Re: Auction... Event?... Input

Post by MagicUser »

This is a really hard post to reply to, because I understand where you are coming from. I also however feel bad for the burden it puts on +C. This post as far as I can tell is a call to action. Even if just to get a reply.

My concern with this post and why I am replying is, what if +C has been doing stuff behind the scenes? Little bits of tinkering here and there for the past couple years? What if he's been tinkering on big stuff like portal 2.0? As a hobby coder (rather than a professional coder) I very much admire +C's passion for not only thoroughly testing his code and its effects on the server at large. I also admire his need to keep the code clean and manageable. I'm not at that level of coding, but I can't put it into words how time consuming and important it is to do so. All analogies fall short. Even his poop stamp one. The fact that the server has been able to run at all with just one person managing the code is amazing. A testament to his efforts. While I cannot speak to coding on that scale, my own experience is that even minor changes can take hours sometimes days to test thoroughly. Heaven forbid its a rare event. You may never be able to test all the edge cases in a reasonable amount of time. The point is, with life outside of coding, even 6 hours a day is not enough to do anything substantial.

I think the biggest help for +C would be some helpers. Unfortunately, that's not always possible. Unseen factors can make giving privileges, even to people with the best intentions, problematic. Regardless, the fact that he is saying that he is working on stabilizing the back end of things gives me hope. Why stabilize something you have no intention of working on further.

On top of all this. The admins are volunteers. This is his hobby. Has been for a long long time. Its possible this has become his chore. It does not change the fact that poking someone who is, from best guess, working on things, is a sure fire way to making them feel unappreciated. Before anyone says something about updates, if you think coding is time consuming, making constant updates can not only be a full time job, but there are also heavy risks that come with doing so. I believe he has mentioned some of them. A big one is getting people excited about content that looked to be in scope and was even partially working after weeks/months of effort, but eventually just has to be abandoned to avoid the sunk cost fallacy. Doing so demotivates people even more than not giving any updates at all. Saying something like, I am working on something, typically does not help much either. "I am working on something", 2 years later, has people wondering if you are still working on something or if you moved on.

As a side note, I was speaking to my mom, ButteryBiscuits. She pointed out that as the content remains, having someone you know IRL play the game with you can be very enjoyable. Even if in 4 years they hit the wall, that was 4 years of bonding. Something to think about. I guess her point was something along the lines of, play like you would if you didn't care about the politics or progress of the game. Any enjoyment you have in the mean time can't be taken away no matter what happens with the shard.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by qbf »

That was a good reply Paroxysmus, and it helps give perspective to what goes on behind the scenes in terms of coding, something I don't understand well.

After reading and reflecting your post I changed the title to the thread to more aptly describe what I am hoping to get. I took out the word "event" and put in the word "update".

Your line about making +C feel unappreciated struck a chord and made me think of something he said in the past (either in a thread like this or to me in game). It was along the lines of: "The individual piece of criticism is never that bad, but when it is all you get consistently it can grind you down, like water wearing away rock". I am definitely not trying to be critical of +C and, although done poorly, I try and always acknowledge that we are here, playing for free on a server he maintains. Acknowledging this, I would like to remind +C that the overwhelming amount of forum posts you get (even from me) are positive and encouraging - as humans we focus on those negative things that happen to us and can brush over the positives - so remember whilst this thread certainly has critical elements (and is coming from me personally hitting a wall - maybe I need a break) you are supported by the community, me included.

I understand this began, and likely still is, a hobby for +c. The thing is, coding a shard and gameplay experience is fun (I imagine if you are a coder), but I imagine the rewarding part is when people participate in the world you create and you build a community - no point coding a quest or some such for it to never be ran. I imagine that would be the rewarding part for +c, seeing high and stable populations working through things on their own. Parts of our community are becoming disillusioned due to the lack of communication, and this, I think, is a problem.

In my first post I talk about events of old etc, and I make mention of the fact I've often made a thread calling for an auction a few days before on it's announced (it's happened a couple of times in the past) - that part was meant to be a joke. But that's not what I am asking for, what I am really after is just some input, or updates, on where we are at and how it is going. I said that from the very get go. I agree, and always will, with the ethos that stability and longevity is more important than a new area/quest/event etc. I try and make that explicit in both posts. Coding changes might take ages, but writing a few few paragraphs saying "its going well, I've cleared X, Y & Z.... next up I'm looking at X and Y. The recent stability and lagless uptime is evident this approach is working. Thanks for playing..." would only take a few minutes.

To really clarify, and I've made the mess myself by talking about events and stuff in the first post, I am after written updates on how we're going. Ideally it would be Part 1 of the Roadmap. The last announcement in Ex Daily thread was mid Feb. Prior to that they were coming at much greater frequency. Sometimes a few a month, if you go back a few pages there are gaps of 3 months. It's been over 6 months since we got any update on what is happening behind the scenes. I am not trying to suggest nothing is going on. I'm not saying code heaps of events for me now! In the Roadmap thread +C posted that part 1 was being written, any day now, back in June. Asking if it would be released this year sounds very rude, but when you read the language that was used... surely "any day now" would be within 5.5 months?

Anyways, just waiting for any day now to come I suppose.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Melkor »

I’m not sure if these type of posts make any difference in terms of inspiring development. I know how temping it is make posts/comments like this though. I really do think that anyone thinking of joining the shard would be turned off by seeing this. I don’t think +C will ever shut the shard down, I also do believe UOEX will see another golden age, I just hope it’s in my lifetime :)
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Zeratul »

Lol … that’s all I got. Good luck
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Dauntius »

Melkor wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:06 pm
I really do think that anyone thinking of joining the shard would be turned off by seeing this.
I thought I'd chime in as I am a fairly new player on this shard - about 100 days. I came back to UO after years of not playing. The last shard I put years into (SFU)... was ironically lost in a flood. Another shard I spent time on shut down due to ransomware. This has put a bad taste in my mouth, and I have not wanted to invest time/money in a server that may not last.

Obviously nothing is guaranteed but the longevity of Excelsior has encouraged me to play UO again, a game I've played on/off since Renaissance. (I remember fighting an Ogre, and hearing my sister picking up the phone on the modem speaker)

As far as content/updates - I'm not quite at the stage someone like John Warren is so as a new player I'm excited about all the content currently available. Also perhaps after experiencing games die like Shadowbane, getting burned by Crowfall, and now currently anticipating major disappointment with Star Citizen... Perhaps I'm numb to the ups and downs at this point.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Zeratul »

I’ll be honest with you all. The players that have been here, let’s say 7+ years remember a time when UOEX was thriving and fun. There was always something to do and something to look forward to. That environment changed drastically. To most of us, that change seemed like it happened over night. I say this to say, the new players don’t have established expectations from a time when things were drastically better. I’m happy that the new players are comfortable with what they have. I believe that the older players would be comfortable too… but it’s starting to feel like we are being fed false hope. I think that is what has pushed a lot of the veterans away. Everyone wants something all the time. I got it. That’s the problem with a business. However, the customer base/community does deserve some type of honest feed back. The community doesn’t have to like the feed back, but we deserve something, we deserve to be treated better.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Silent »

What ever happens on the road ahead as long as the server is up it is not that bad. We are all playing a freeshard of a game released in 97 so it is very good to see that our virtual homes are maintained.

Apart from that I must say that despite the lack of great coding/preparing and all the buggs involved the seasonal quests make a really huge difference in server activity. I honestly hated them all except for the fall quest but the economy thrived because players were online and there was something to do.

Having said that, what ever lies ahead down this road, we need more events because reaching mid-late-boredom is not that hard and after a few years there is just not enough content to be provided. We just need action.

This is obviously a remark of a young player do not get me wrong :lool:
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Kairoz »

i think posts like this raise important discussions. i disagree that they are irrelevant.
i feel like giving my view about this. its not a complaint, it is a constructive opinion.

we all love to play ultima, and we all know that there is no better place to play than uoex.

why playing ultima is so great? besides the gameplay, also because when you join it, you're into a community. for some people, that represents an important aspect of their lives, you know. turns out to be more than just a game, more than pixels in a screen. it is real life, in form of game.

this shard is under the power of 1 administrator, the responsible person for keeping it up. he doesn't rule, he is not reponsible for ruling the community. but he is responsible for the plataform where the community stands.
it means he must be able to cover the issues concerning the relation plataform x community. the most polemical one: the existance of new contents, f.e. the totality of those issues are a very complex thing to administrate. there is people who thinks its important to have new content, there is people who don't. there are different interests, and they all should be addressed, they all have importance.

what happens actually? apparently, the responsible is not being able to acknowledge and adress all those issues.
and for that, he is being partially irresponsible. he is being unethical. unethical with parts of the community.

but, how could he not? how could one single person have time and disposition the manage one big mass of different interests?

than why keep this responsability all for himself? why not delegate issues, why not bringing new agents to the game?
if the admin don't like to be an admin (which means, to be a responsible one), why to continue?

i don't agree that being a admin is a hobby for him. that can't be true. i think 1 its a good businness for him, and we're fine with that, and 2 he knows there is people counting on him. does he feel the charge to response, the urge of being there, in a regular basis, for the community? No. That is evident, no matter what.

+C don't feel the urge to be a responsible admin, there are more important things for him at this moment, than this community. He will keep being partially unethical with parts of the community, because he is only 1 person. And many of us will keep unsatisfied in our interests.

Nothing will change, until he decides to share his responsability. Until new agents, new gm's come into the game.

So why, what are you waiting for, +C? Othewise, why not just shut down the shard anyway?
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by ButteryBiscuits »

I'm so sorry Kairoz but I will add my 2 cents and hopefully you also see this as "constructive" because I must admit that reading your post did not feel like "constructive criticism".

It seems like the overarching goal was to lay out the responsibilities of an admin.... and then to re-iterate multiple times that the admin is responsible for addressing *everything* to the satisfaction of those on the shard and then more specifically that it is not being addressed adequately. And to this I will say... um.... perhaps that needs to be thought out more clearly? Anyone above the age of 20 should (hopefully) be able to realize that you CAN NOT be ALL things to ALL people ALL the time. This is the root of the social media mental collapse of our teenagers. Not only is it not possible, it really is not useful. There are many who do not realize that just because there is a personal desire, and *heaven forbid* one contributes/donates to the shard/etc, that does not make their demands feasible or maybe even possible. I first joined this shard in 2010 with an active, vibrant community and events going on a regular basis- AND YET.... there were people upset even then that there were not more events, more new content, more this, more that, more more more....

In the final analysis, this is not a paid shard. We do not have to pay anything to be here or get anything. All the admins (now and then, i believe) have always been volunteers. Many people who have never worked in the realm of IT, servers, coding, etc have this warped idea that a "free shard" means that not only do they not have to pay to play but that there are no real world costs to keep the shard operational. That is not true. Beyond the often times significant costs of servers and their upkeep, the monthly fees to have the shard hosted in a reliable, accessible environment- there is the HUGELY time consuming, life sacrificing suck to create new content. Coding new stuff is not clean, easy, or quick (see MagicUser's post above- very well stated). Put on top of that the negativity surrounding some well-intentioned concepts that dragged out for years that never panned out- as well as the admins that have come and gone through the years, and I am very sorry but I am going to respectfully request that you take a step back and take a deep breath.

This is a shard started by someone that has continued to keep it going for over a decade. They have indicated that they are not "folding up shop" but have instead been focused on getting all the *censored* out of the code that would make it easier to add new content and to manage what is there.

So there has not been new content, new events, new .... whatever, but there has been progress. If +C did decide to trash the shard and just close it down, that is a risk we all take. There are many decisions he could make to prioritize other things, not to mention all the various things that can happen in life, which could mean that this 'life' that we built here could disappear. Quite honestly, it is completely out of our control just like most things. Enjoy it while it is here and be grateful and appreciative to the people that keep it running. If it is not everything you want and desire, feel free to express your desires and hopes for the shard (heaven knows I probably have more open tickets going for suggestions than +C ever wants to see) but can we keep it positive and encouraging?

If you (not specifically you Kairoz) just can't stand it without whatever it is you deem essential to a great free shard, find one out there that meets your needs or start your own.... and I am not saying that as a "kiss off" statement, but as a hope that by looking at what is out there that you find one that is a better fit or realize that this actually is a pretty great shard.

For those of you worried about bringing your kids on to a shard and reaching a dead end.... do it anyways. You will never regret the 2 or 3 years you spend with your young adult- whether it is camping, at their sporting or music events, eating meals together, or playing a game before they move onto the next "thing" in their life.

That may have been more like 25 cents, but that's my opinion. Love you all- and sending mucho appreciation to +C and +K (and all those that came before) for all their time on the shard.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by Kairoz »

Thank you for you reply, Buttery.
ButteryBiscuits wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:41 pm
It seems like the overarching goal was to lay out the responsibilities of an admin.... and then to re-iterate multiple times that the admin is responsible for addressing *everything* to the satisfaction of those on the shard and then more specifically that it is not being addressed adequately. And to this I will say... um.... perhaps that needs to be thought out more clearly? Anyone above the age of 20 should (hopefully) be able to realize that you CAN NOT be ALL things to ALL people ALL the time.
Well... that is precisely the way i finished my considerations. I think if you close read what i said, that is precisely my point. So there's no disagreement after all :) It is surprising that you feel like i was laying out all the responsability over +C shoulders, since i clearly state that one man cannot do that big job that is running alone this shard. My conclusion is about the necessity of more agents to help him with that job, precisely.

When i say "unethical" or lack of responsability, it is not a personal thing, like an intentional action towards it. It is just what happens when you try to manage so many different interests, being alone in a power position as admin

But as to all the rest you said, i agree with you, and i thank you for taking your time to post your perspective.

...

I think we need to be careful about the expression "free shard". And we need to have extra careful about the expression "no need to pay to play", they can be very relative, depending on the perspective you put into it.
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Re: Auction?...... Input?.... update?

Post by MagicUser »

Kairoz wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:29 pm
he is being unethical. unethical with parts of the community.
Well, that is a hot take if I ever heard one.

From the rest of the message I am assuming that English is not your first language. If it is, my apologies. If not, please take this in the spirit it was meant, educational.

Unethical means to lack moral principles or to be unwilling to adhere to proper rules of conduct. I cannot imagine that is what you meant.
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