About John Warren...

Name says it all
MagicUser
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Re: About John Warren...

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Respectfully,
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valeriano
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by valeriano »

MagicUser wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:47 pm
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The mistake is crystal clear:

animals.jpg
animals.jpg (38.58 KiB) Viewed 2455 times

Someone who likes this way of judgement should be prepared to be treated in the same way.
Give me a mask and i will tell the truth.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by MagicUser »

I just said y'alls conversation was entertaining to watch. I look forward to more of this entertainment. Feel free to direct some of it at me :D. Thank you for saying my comment was entertaining.
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Johnny Warren
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Johnny Warren »

Valeriano, can we clear something up here, it seems there is a premise you are assuming and basing many of your arguments on that is strictly untrue.

Nick is not my friend. We have clashed more than we have agreed in UOEX. No offence Nick, I have no beef with you, and I don't dislike you, I respect you, but I think its fair to say we aren't friends on here. I respect Nick as a fellow player, but just because he is disagreeing with you and pointing out OP did the wrong thing doesn't make him my friend. It just fits your narrative to make that assumption and assert your incorrect viewpoint as the truth to make your argument more compelling.

Nick was simply stating his opinion and you are putting words in his mouth based on false assumptions. You assume everyone that disagrees with you is my "friend". News flash mate, these people are disagreeing with you because they disagree with your interpretation of that sign, not some other reason. Stop making up and stating these false assumptions and recognise that your viewpoint is not the only way to see the UOEX world. I believe that many (probably most) people would disagree with your interpretation of the TC sign. I certainly do. I've always read it as anything that causes more lag to this already busy place, or spams up peoples journals.

I like your saying about friends and enemies and the law. Sadly in Australia that saying is applied all the time to our politicians, where they are the "friends" and the rest of us are the "enemies". It fits that situation nicely. I am also a huge fan of Animal Farm, it is an excellent book and that quote resonates with me. That said neither of them apply to this situation at all. You want them to fit, you are trying to make them fit, but just because you say something doesn't make it true. I am assuming you're saying I'm one of the "more equal" animals. gain, untrue. I follow the rules to the T here, I page on players exploiting and rule breaking more than anyone I reckon. I have multiple shirts of honesty and protector of the economy for doing this.

This all could have been resolved if OP just [pm'd me instead of starting this public thing. Unfortunately for Ranametalara all it has done is made the previously underground movement of us "spinners" become public and cool, now we have everyone wanting a piece of it. Someone even made forum post with some scripts if you want to get in on this new movement: https://uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=78936#p78936

Now it seems that you have gone into a very defensive position because of your misunderstanding of the relationship between some players and your own personal interpretation of a rule, interestingly the reason you are accusing me of using to defend my viewpoint. I think that's really rather silly, and not worth the effort, but then again, this is the internet. Always gonna get someone who hates it when others enjoy something they don't like and aim to cancel them. #Dontcancelme
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Re: About John Warren...

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Always remember to pillage before you burn!-----------Unknown
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Wil »

So... -technically- +C changed the rules a couple years back so that afk macroing outside of some specific approved uses (like skill training) was no longer allowed.

-Practically- speaking, he was tired of arguing about which macros were profiteering and which ones weren't. Making afk macros generally disallowed ended the argument.

I've never seen someone jailed for afk strolling about town. I don't expect to either.

On the flip side, complaining about someone's behavior (the name-and-shame game) is not inherently harassment. It could certainly develop into harassment. You want to be careful traveling that particular road. But there's no line in the sand that you cross by identifying the person who upset you. Give over already.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Nick »

I'm hurt John doesn't consider me his friend... I mean yeah we are mean and abusive to each other, half the time, and I DON"T consider him MY friend (*eye roll* the line about human perception and statistics someone keeps preaching) but, that's just because I generally don't like anyone enough to consider them a friend (except maybe my wife). :lool: :lool: :lool: :lool: Johns def one of the ppl with a lot of good information (his lack of taste when it comes to mounts notwithstanding) and a great fella to bounce ideas off though.

But yeah, I'm not sure if what Wil said is true or not about calling someone out by name for something on the forum or WC no longer being against the rules. I was tracking that was one of the few hard and fast rules to never break. I've got a warning on my record from +R for violating the Call out by name rule from like 4 -5 years ago (I wasn't even calling someone out for anything just trying to find them) for just trying to see if anyone knew my neighbor at the time and offering a 10kk reward for linking me up with him because he had left the shard game years earlier and I wanted to buy his house (this was before IDOCs would actually fall). I don't remember the rule being changed but, that's not to say it did not and I missed it, I miss a lot as only a semi-regular player.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Johnny Warren »

Sorry Nick, it isn't personal. But there's only about 2 people on this server who are my friends and I know both of them IRL... I wanted to mainly make the point to Valeriano that he was using that line to try and say you were just a buddy of mine forming some sort of elitist gang, where we ignore the rules and lord it over the plebs.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Wil »

Nick wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:30 pm
But yeah, I'm not sure if what Wil said is true or not about calling someone out by name for something on the forum or WC no longer being against the rules. I was tracking that was one of the few hard and fast rules to never break. I've got a warning on my record from +R for violating the Call out by name rule from like 4 -5 years ago (I wasn't even calling someone out for anything just trying to find them) for just trying to see if anyone knew my neighbor at the time and offering a 10kk reward for linking me up with him because he had left the shard game years earlier and I wanted to buy his house (this was before IDOCs would actually fall).
Hi Nick,

There actually is a rule about trying to identify who someone is outside of the game. It sounds like that's what you ran afoul of.

"Spreading rumors about who is who:" https://uoex.net/codex/penalties
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Johnny Warren »

Hey Wil, see the quote on page 1 that I used parts of when +C reprimanded me for using in game names on the forum when stating I didn't like their behaviour. Naming and shaming has always been a "no no" on the forum.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Wil »

qbf wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:14 pm
Hey Wil, see the quote on page 1 that I used parts of when +C reprimanded me for using in game names on the forum when stating I didn't like their behaviour. Naming and shaming has always been a "no no" on the forum.
Hi,

You mean this 2019 post: viewtopic.php?p=74546
qbf wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:34 pm
PS Don't want to be scammed, don't buy from michellancello.
+Colibri wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:50 pm
[*] @qbf: you mentioned in your first reply, "don't buy from Michelancello". This is blacklisting, and not allowed. As you pointed out, it would be good to be able to call out the potentially suspicious sellers, and if you stick to facts and not go against the person/name, that is (and should be) allowed. Maybe this should be an overall rule, for discussing anything in chat, or on the forum. For example, this is allowed: "i had this same item on my vendor for weeks and it didn't sell, finally got it to sell for 800k, so I'd say it's not worth 10mil". But this isn't: "Don't buy from ProverbialSaruman, he always scams people".
As well as this 2013 post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6609

Which was the -exact- same activity: one player calling another a scammer. In each case someone "went against" the "person/name" by labeling them a scammer rather than "stick to facts." And of course in each case it involved an item trade not some other sort of behavior.

Anyway, the operative part of what +C said is: "it would be good to be able to call out the potentially suspicious sellers [...] [which] is (and should be) allowed." I know of no way to "call out" someone without naming them. So it seems to me he's saying: when you call them out (by name) stick to specific, objective facts instead of mudslinging. Which is basically the definition of naming and shaming.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Johnny Warren »

Wil wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:40 pm
So it seems to me he's saying: when you call them out (by name) stick to specific, objective facts instead of mudslinging. Which is basically the definition of naming and shaming.
I think that was Nick's original point - if you don't like the behaviour call the thread"annoying TC macros" or something. The thread is literally called "About John Warren..." I don't like it. I if there's an issue with the activity/behaviour then make a post about that. I don't need to have my name dragged through the mud as some obnoxious player trying to wreck peoples fun. I have paged in game about the thread title.
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Wil »

qbf wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:22 am
The thread is literally called "About John Warren..." I don't like it. I have paged in game about the thread title.
Okay. Well, I don't see how the particular words +C used on the forums twice in ten years (let alone the ones he used on the web page documenting the official rules) give rise to a belief that Ranametalera violated those rules. I definitely don't see how it abstracts to some broad rule to the effect that, "You talk about the problem, not the player. Naming the player is not allowed." +C seems to say pretty clearly that naming the player IS allowed as long as you aren't "blacklisting" as he calls it.

If +C comes along and says you're right, feel free to tell me you told me so.

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Re: About John Warren...

Post by Nick »

Well, most (if not all) rules here are guidelines, not laws ppl can try and lawyer against each other, GMs can, have and should use their judgment seen many a time both "yeah that's against the rules (technically) but, doesn't hurt anything and is kinda cool I'll allow it" and "yeah, that's not technically against the rules but, it annoying and hurts the Shard/economy/ isn't an intended use so don't do it again".

Remember the time someone spent like 20 hours combing months of Chat logs documenting every time someone they disliked had advertised at 59 min instead of 60 or there weren't 12 lines of text between the ads... and posted their "evidence" on the forum like a lawyer in court acting like they had finally won.

:lool: :lool: :lool: :lool: :lool: :lool: :lool:
and +C basically said yeah... so, what...
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Re: About John Warren...

Post by davethemage »

We need to set up an RCMP musical ride in TC. :dance :dance I'll even provide the red dragon scale armor

google it if your not sure what i mean.

https://youtu.be/KzK1gGmTx0I?t=1262
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