Excelsior

I say "discussion" because I like to lie to myself that this won't be a heated "debate." Already heard some opinions on this, and know how this will be met with resistance. However, I feel this needs to be brought up because of the crazy edge this gives some players.

I did a controlled experiment where I had a high number of hit points (5000), 120 healing, various dexterity levels, and a mountain of bandages. Other than that, I was completely naked. I had no regeneration bonuses. I set my hits to 1 while clicking my stopwatch, I waited until I got to full health and stopped the stopwatch. After taking the time in seconds it took to get from 1 to 5000 hits, while using a looping macro made with Razor, I divided the total hits by the time it took to get to that max and received multiple statistics based on different dexterity levels. Here are two of the findings:

At 215 Dexterity @ 120 healing, 192 hit points healed per second.
At 210 Dexterity @ 120 healing, 59 hit points healed per second.
[Note, this jump is mostly due to the lack of need for a "pause" action in a razor macro (at 215, versus 210) that loops the Healing skill.]

Basically...you can get upwards of 190 hit points restored every 1 second (calculated from the 62-65 average per .333 seconds I was witnessing in various events in the past and from experimentation)

So...if you are not fighting monsters that freeze or paralyze you, and do not hit with fire breathing over your max hits, and assuming you have 60k bandages, you’re immortal.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Also…there is a difference between expressing opinion and bashing opinion. One will get your post deleted/your forum account banned/the topic locked. So, keep it clean and keep it respectful.

+V

Personally, I am all for players being able to heal themselves quickly, but there does need to be a limit somewhere. I may not have the most enlightened opinion on this topic but I would like just a bit more parity among players. The ones who have been here a long time will always be super awesome on this shard but some of them seem to be at a nearly unobtainable level for people who started playing on this shard in the last year or so.

I do not think the instant healing is that large of an advantage seeing as this is a pvm server. Sure you will probably not die as often as someone who heals slower but the point is kinda moot when most players use a wall of pets anyways. The instant bandages also give people a level of dex to aspire to

Absolutely agree with Adrias. It makes no difference as it is a PVM shard. It doesnt effect how fast you can kill something as such, so shouldnt effect anyone else in terms of gold collecting etc.

I donated to relayer items so I could get up over the 220 dex mark for melee. Would be upsetting to find out i did it for nothing. I can tell you I die quite often even with my healing ability. Insta heal barely helps with umbris camp etc.

On a heavily tamer based shard i think this will just remove the few melee players we have.

As far as

The ones who have been here a long time will always be super awesome on this shard but some of them seem to be at a nearly unobtainable level for people who started playing on this shard in the last year or so.

isnt that sort of the point? To have something to aim for an obtain? Should vets be nerfed and penalized for being here a long time so that new players can get to elite sooner? Seems crazy to me.... In fact i will end here so I dont get a smack on the wrist

TheWatcher

There is seriously no need for players to be healing this quickly - I say either cap it at one second (maybe half a second) or remove the Faster Casting cap on healing spells. Its all about balance, right?

I've been sitting on roughly 180-190 dex for over a year now, but I'd like to think that even if I did hit that 'instaheal' mark, my opinion wouldn't change. I almost see this as an unintentional exploit, created by the introduction of relayering.

I am all for keeping it as is. A few points as to why i think this should be so...

This is a PvM shard. So someone being nigh in unkillable shouldn't matter. Personally i would much rather see every player on the shard insta-healing and meleeing rather than when a champ pops a zillion pets pop out and maul it.

A key point in keeping it as is (or at least very close to how it currently works) is that it offers older players new challenges and incentives. It is difficult to obtain that amount of dex, challenges keep people interested. I am way off being able to heal like that but it is my target, i will work hard, spend a lot of gold and hopefully one day be able to heal like the hardcore vets. I definitely do not get bitter n think "damn, i'll never be able to be as good as him" and then jump on the 'lets nerf dex' bandwagon.

It's a gold (ED) sink. People spend LOTS of gold and ED's lvling, relayering stuff and building unique and cool suits so that they are better equipped to fight in hand to hand. Economy would explode out of hand if there was no reason for the vets to spend gold.

If you make healing weaker and less effective (so you cant melee some of the top end mobs) then please reduce the effectiveness of ALL pets, otherwise you will just see a reversion to mass pet usage.

When i first joined I thought it was one of those "tamer" shards where u had to use the strongest pets to kill the top end mobs. This turned me off as it is a dull way (in my opinion) to play UO. Then i saw a stronger older player melee a balron, that took my 4 max'd bunnies ages to kill, very quickly. That incident INSPIRED me. Suddenly the shard became much cooler in my eyes. I know this may be contrary to many other views. But well... my 2 cents.

I agree with what thewatcher says. Surely vets SHOULD be stronger than new players. Thats the point of playing a character based RPG game... I think penalizing vets because they seem overpowered to newer players is a BAD BAD idea... if you need to change something then, as blaze suggested, increase the power/speed of healing spells. I personally would slow up/stop my playing if it meant i had to just fight with my pets again...

-JOHNNY WARREN!!

PS any chance we can get a discussion about whether we should fix bushido and make evasion work? That would be very cool. I think having a choice to parry OR bushido is good. Not just all on parry and relayer stuff so you can use a bow and shield.. i mean how many warriors of old used huge kite shields while fighting with a war hammer or a longbow? (Sorry about the off topic)

I think maybe some of my earlier comments were taken a little out of context. lets stand back. Nowhere did i say that anyone should be penalized. I did, however, say that there needs to be a limit somewhere. I did not speculate on where that might be. I was trying to look at both sides of the argument. I also said that I'm not in the most enlightened position. If nobody wants to hear the opinion of someone who is fairly new here then I would like to know that, because it was beginning to look like words were being put into my mouth. If you disagree with something that I have said, then make your point in a valid way (like Watcher did) instead of just saying that I am in favor of punishing everyone older than me.

I have 220 dex, and die a lot Died a few times at super mel for instance when too many satyrs popped up. Also I was warned not to use an area weapon in Prism where the guardians and wisps are, of course I had to try, died in 2 seconds. Grizzle has hit me 150+ twice in a row, I've entered blighted grove with Enemy Of One on, got mugged by 3 abscess and 3 trashers. There are still plenty of good places to die, umbris camp being number one

Also, I tested what it was like to play with 1.0 sec heals. Not much change in normal play (mel, netopir, multi-balrons), compared to 220 dex, still survived. Naturally some of the harder monsters (e.g. Putrifiers) might make me retreat for a couple secs to heal, but that isn't too bad, more like the way it should be.

Thus I voted for the second option, I can live with 1 sec heals

Fighting without pets is more of a hobby than a way to easy money. No matter what gear i have, i wont be nearly as good as a pack of 5 imprisoned pets. Takes about 600 oints per and 3000 oints total to get them to 500 hp and max dex, then you're good to go. 3k oints and 5 imp pets is about 30-32 mill, which is less than half of what my bow alone is worth in gold.

So if there's something overpowered, I'd say it's the imp pets (200% dmg AND pack instinct). Maybe remove the pack instinct?

Albino wrote:If you disagree with something that I have said, then make your point in a valid way (like Watcher did) instead of just saying that I am in favor of punishing everyone older than me.

I assume you are talking to me.

Sorry it may have seemed that I was attacking your view but I was merely making some of my own in isolation dealing only with the question Veritas asked. Without any regard to anything said by anyone it is my opinion that vets who have donated/obtained such high levels of dex so that they can heal very quickly would be being punished as their suit and uquipment they have designed and made now becomes redundant.

I was not aiming criticism at anyone, nor trying to put words in your mouth, but simply, as stated, giving my 2 cents on the actual debate (whether we should cap dex/healing speed), and clearly I am in the negative and as such argue that way.

Apologies for any offense caused.

JW

1)I think once you hit 150 dex,your heal speed should have a cap of once per 3 seconds.So,anything over 150 dex will have no factor in healing.

2)Or Have insant heals,but max healed is 60 points.(kinda silly instant healing yourself almost 200 points)


I have watched alot of these players take on some of the top bosses in the game,and its like they are fighting a mong bat.In the terms of they just brush any damage off instantly.Let me try to melee a balron and i see a grey screen.

When you can stand toe to toe with some of the hardest hitting monsters in the game and heal off 100+ damage in one sec,your to over powered!


I dont blame the players for this.If there are means of getting it,people will get it.This shard is made up of the gods(2-4 relayered items with all these extra stats)that is not the players fault.As a player we all strive to have the best we can get.But,when the powers above never have any checks and balance you end up with all these god like players.And the rest of the players just look and rub their head.

In my 12 years of regular uo,i could never do some of the acts,that i have seen on this shard.I cant be redlined and instantly be fully healed.Which i have seen on this shard countless times.

Is this regular osi? No,but at some point is gets silly.

I'm biased: I don't like nerfs at all. I think there's almost always a better way to balance the game. But aside from that, the first thing I want to do in this case is assess the problem, and I don't really see a problem. I agree with those who say that on a PvM shard with the advanced pets we have here, it's almost silly to suggest that any melee advantage unbalances anything. So I say leave dex/healing alone. Anyone who goes to the expense to get that much dex should get the benefit from it. Why not? It's not as if anyone is harmed as a consequence.

Another point of view:

There are 4 different ways of hunting:

Normal pets - Cost: <1 mill
They have 1000hp each, cost from 50k to a couple 100k, what you need is max LMC, enough mana regen, max FC/FCR and you're almost immortal, just need to heal pets and they do the killing. Total cost is less than 1 mill (gear and pets). Damage is pretty nice too. Have to be replaced eventually due to stat loss.

Bios - Cost: ~ 9-11 mill
Cost 7-9 mill, plus a couple mill to gear them up. Tons of hp, so they dont need to be healed so often. Also no stat loss. Damage isn't that great though. Fun to gear up though. Doesn't give as wide protection as 5 pets.

Imprisoned pets - Cost: ~40 mill
They have to be ointed up, which will cost a lot of money. After that they are like normal pets, just need the gear to be able to heal fast enough, keep them between you and your enemy and you're almost immortal. No stat loss, and the damage is insane, best in game by far.

Soloing without pets Cost: Depends.. 200-> mill
Costs thousands of EDs. Damage output is about the same level as with fighting with normal pets, since you can use spells like consecrate weapon to target enemys lowest res. With 220 dex you're nearly immortal (pretty much only 1 hit killers or several hard monsters can kill you). Very different play style than using pets, not just healing and healing pets. A longer road to get there too, which adds to the longevity of the game.


So all in all, you dont need 220 dex to be immortal, 5k hp worth of meat between you and your enemy, decent gear and you're good to go.

^^Good post, Jack. That's lays it out pretty objectively.

Sorry, a small addition to imprisoned pets. Didn't take the possibility of having 10 pet slots into consideration.
(I use imprisoned pets as an example because it has the greatest effect on them).

Let's say a player invests EDs, getting 10 pet slots, and 10 maxed imp pets. Each does 200% dmg, doubled by pack instinct (=400%) and done by 10 pets ( =4,000% ), not even counting the 300+ str.

Instant healer might be semi-immortal, but the dmg compared to imps...

Unless +C changed it himself, pact instinct caps out at 100%