Hit Area vs. Hit [Direct Damage Spell]

[Unbeliever]

So I've picked up a 4x58 weapon with Hit Area Fire on it (also LL, ML, HLA) and I need some feedback from experienced players. All up until now, I planned on adding a couple more Hit Areas up to 60. But once I got it in my hands I thought: This is an end-game weapon. It should probably have Hit Lightning/Fireball instead because my SDI will keep going up as I add relayers, whereas (I think) the Hit Area damage probably won't change at all. It seems like Hit Area is better at first for players with little-to-no SDI but later on it'd just be gimping you. What are everyone's thoughts? Is there any reason to consider adding Hit Areas to an end-game weapon that I'm missing?

[Aryck]

It already has an area so Id just make it an AOE weapon. Add a few more and use it for champs. 4x58 is amazing but that doesn't always mean end game weapon. To me HLA is worthless so this might as well be 3x58 and id prefer Low Def. over LL any day.

[Unbeliever]

Thanks for the input. I was looking for a Hit Area and Life Leech on a weapon originally, only things I definitely didn't want were Stam Leech or Dispel. It's always been my understanding that HLA is good if it's going to be a melee weapon, which it is. I have no intention of changing this to a ranged weapon. But anyway, I figured that it would function more or less the same at champs and other big spawns whether I add Hit Areas or Lightning/Fireball. Mobs converge on you at champs anyway, even moreso once they've been tagged by the Hit Area that's already on it. Then Whirlwind the mess out of them. At least that how it works in my head. If I'm wrong, let me know why.

I mean yeah - I originally wanted to have 3 Hit Area 60's on it with a few odd and assorted extras and now it just doesn't seem like a good idea. Now it seems to me that's only good for players without any SDI who aren't thinking long-term at all. Which probably means I'd have been happier not getting a Hit Area at all - but since I did, I just want to make the best weapon out of it that I can. I want to think long-term. Some people might not like the particular set of properties on this weapon but it will definitely be a long time before I'm in any position to improve upon it. Let me phrase this differently then: Does increasing any other factor (Strength, SDI, whatever) increase the damage done by Hit Area effects?

[Asmodean]

The HLA really gimps this weapon in my opinion. End game you want things to hit you, so your reflect physical hits them back harder, and you have the hp buffer to survive the hit(s). HLA is also pretty useless for an aoe weapon in my opinion. I think Aryck's advice is sound. I'd personally probably go 50% + lightning OR fireball and add 25% to 2 more AOEs.

From another post:

Here is the way to look at for weapons take notes.

Direct DMG Weapons u want higher ht percentages. (so 46 or higher unless a 4x38, never under 3x on any)

Hits and uses on diff dmg types

Direct DMG

Hit Lightning first, Fireball Second (both can be good on the loot even harm or magic arrow if u plan accordingly)

Hit Harm and Hit Magic arrow determine if you are fighting ranged or melee. Magic arrow might be better for Ranged, but at the same time if you use ranged and melee with it harm will hit harder in the long run as it hits harder the closer you are.

Area hits have NO use on a direct dmg weapon as they do not do direct dmg only area of effect dmg.

Hit lower defense is good and better than Hit Lower attack on direct damage. One lowers their HCI, other their DCI, Id rather lower their DCI and hit them more so Hit Lower Defense.

Damage Increase is wasted space and should never be considered a hit on a weapon as it will most likely be wasted as you will (or should) be maxed by relayers.

Hit Dispel does not work on this server other than for player summoned creatures. Never consider it a hit for purchase or sale.

Leeches u want mana then life and stam if u really want on direct hit weapon in that order. Mana leech will be needed for using the special attacks repeatedly on most weapons


Area Weapons (whirlwind)
Your weapon wanting numbers can change on this. Really the higher up is still better but a 4 or even 5x 26 can be just as good with the right stats as a starter.


Areas and Direct DMG hits. I would definitely want at least an area and a direct hit on my weapon. I would probably even try to add later another hit or 2 and an area if possible (why the 5x26 or even 4x26 can come in handy as u can have a lot at 26 from whirlwinding doesn't need 60 always for them to go off as they get more chances).

Hit lower defense/Lower attack are really not needed or used much on an Area weapon as Lower attack would be better for saving you bandages, Nothing should need their defense lowered that you would area attack.

Leeches, whirlwinding doesn't take as much mana as direct dmg specials. You can get away sometimes if your suit is all medable without it, Stam leech and then Life leech would be best. As stam helps you not have to spam divine fury at a champ spawn.

There is your basis for looted weapons, you can follow if you want or not. But it is the best way to look at every weapon you loot, or want to buy.

[Unbeliever]

The HLA really gimps this weapon in my opinion. End game you want things to hit you, so your reflect physical hits them back harder, and you have the hp buffer to survive the hit(s). HLA is also pretty useless for an aoe weapon in my opinion. I think Aryck's advice is sound. I'd personally probably go 50% + lightning OR fireball and add 25% to 2 more AOEs.

Thanks for the reply, Asmodean. I'd like to ask one more question if you guys don't mind - I've read that rationale before of taking harder hits to reflect more damage. There are at least four other things I can think of that will detract from your Reflect Physical Damage though. Plain old Physical Resist reduces damage, DCI will reduce your chances of being hit in the first place, and Parrying/Bushido will also block damaging hits. Where do you draw the line between which of those are desirable and which ones are undesirable?

[Tredin]

I've read that rationale before of taking harder hits to reflect more damage. There are at least four other things I can think of that will detract from your Reflect Physical Damage though. Plain old Physical Resist reduces damage, DCI will reduce your chances of being hit in the first place, and Parrying/Bushido will also block damaging hits. Where do you draw the line between which of those are desirable and which ones are undesirable?

Your line of thinking about Reflect Physical Damage, physical resist, parry an bushido and the way they work together is a little wrong. No matter how good your defense is you are going to take hits. People who stack RPD are stacking it for those hits. They aren't trying purposely take more damage to reflect. They are simply capitalizing on the damage they do take.

This is why people avoid having DCI. At the level you have to be to have to worry about this kind of thing you are already healing yourself with bandaids twice a second and probably have 300 or more HP. Defending more with Defense Chance Increase is irrelevant because they heal so much anyway. Trading the one or two bandages for the however much reflected damage is always worth it.

[Cassie]

This is all really good advice. The only thing I would do differently for myself is the following

"Leeches u want mana then life and stam if u really want on direct hit weapon in that order. Mana leech will be needed for using the special attacks repeatedly on most weapons"

I have two pieces of GoC - sleeves & chest(plus a jewelry boost of 10). Mana loss is rarely an issue for me. I have 228 Dex, so hit points are only an issue if I come up against a big hitter that can one shot me. What I do lose is stamina. You need to factor in your armor configuration when deciding what you will need.

While you will more than likely have relayers at some point, these are expensive and may take time to accumulate. So while things like DI can benefit you early on, I wouldn't pay a premium for this, but it can be nice if it's already on the weapon.

[Unbeliever]

Thanks for the wise words, Tredin. Asmodean did say "End game you want things to hit you" though. But see I wasn't aware that people avoided DCI, that's exactly the kind of information that I was looking for. I usually try to inspect the gear of the relayer-burdened players I see around but jewelry's impossible and robes hide quite a bit of the goods.

I feel like I put the cart before the horse with this and I really should have had these questions sorted already. There's nothing for it at this point to press on, though. Maybe an AOE weapon should just be an AOE weapon and I shouldn't be trying to compare close-combat properties with AOE. I'm fine with that really and I guess HLA isn't the best property it could have but I think I'll be alright after all.

[Pariah]

So much of this is situational and theory though. If something is hitting you hard enough to make RPD (I'm in the 100% range I believe) even worthwhile, it's probably also going to drop your stamina a significant amount. For example, I can take on a large mob of lower tier monsters & 2 Felucca balrons. If both balrons hit me, I won't die, and I'll be fully healed shortly (rarely die unless there's lag or a one shotter). The reflect to them isn't significant (not more than say a hit with my weapon), but I lose quite a bit of stamina. I can spam Divine Fury with Gambit, but I also have a mob of lower monsters on me too, etc. In short, I put a little stam leech and a little life leech on my wep. It will keep me going if say a script freezes or anything else happens. However, if I take on the same mob with a Blaze of Death, there is the slightest chance I will die (never happens with my area wep). So, for my purposes, I like having a small amount of leech or maybe HLA on my wep and I maxed my DCI as well. Until you do 1 to 1 testing for your needs and what you're hunting, there is no perfect formula. There are just so many assumptions that have to be made in all of these scenarios. Tredin brought up some valid uses for the Reaper of Souls having properties that I personally wouldn't use, but make sense for other's playstyles and hunts. I guess what I'm trying to say is I always max RPD on my relayers, but I think considering it in light of how you structure a weapon seems to be overestimating it's value a bit. My goal is to inflict maximum damage sure, but the tradeoff between a drop in stamina lowering my attack speed, or HLD or HLA effects, would seem to be greater than an RPD bonus. Not to mention, I can kill more stuff alive than dead. I have a feeling this will be even more necessary with Touria and Elysium coming. Again, we are all speculating at this point. Perhaps I should start charting out something more akin to a formula estimating the trade-offs for all of these properties. Would require some significant testing, aka more playing of UOEX. Now, let me see if I can get my wife and job to sign off on that...

[Tredin]

So much of this is situational and theory though.

Bingo.

In the wise words of the Big Lewbowski "That's just like your opinion man."

[Cygnus]

Just want to throw a little Cygnus wisdom out there. An End Game weapon and End Game gear COULD spell End of Game for those who find out that the game isn't as exciting and fun anymore as most of the challenges have been eliminated. You can strive to come up with the perfect weapon but killing a balron in 3 hits just doesn't give the same satisfaction as what it did when it took 5 minutes to kill one with a composite bow and some innovative tactics.

[Unbeliever]

That's sound logic, Pariah. Thanks for taking the time to write that. And when you figure out how to get life to give you more peaceful play time, I WTB that info. Paying extremely well.

Cygnus, you know I respect you immensely. It might make you feel better to know that no matter how powerful my character gets, I will still have a large game screen crowded with spell and skill icons which I insist on double-clicking manually. I do have a macro to Sacred Journey home though, my one concession to reality.