September Destash Raffle

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GrundyGolem
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by GrundyGolem »

The trash bag is what they did on osi but it was random and in barrel form by banks in cities. I like the trash bag system in place but maybe there needs to be more incentive to just trash your items like maybe some real super expensive items for tokens to work for to burn off tokens are the rewards just stale and needing a changeup?

So as I understand it the number of people hording and using it for a reward factory doesn't doesn't outweigh the number using it as intended?

I am not trying to start any issues just trying to understand the system.
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+Nyx
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by +Nyx »

+C has the trash for tokens system the way it is because that's how he prefers it. We've discussed fiddling with that previously to encourage more trashing, but it's never worked out to be something we felt was a good change for the shard. There will, eventually, be more uses for tokens but that's not going to encourage trashing of items overmuch.


Yes, as I said, there aren't very many people hoarding items for the raffle. Mostly people come and drop items in the bin when they've got a handful of them, and that's that. We had more people in this last raffle who had too few tickets to even receive a reward, than people who submitted enough to receive a reward. Folks mostly just use it the way it's intended regardless of whether they get a reward or not, and as I explained in my previous post - it doesn't matter overmuch if they keep items at home until they're ready to go drop them in the raffle. The items are still getting removed, and they're not being hoarded in massive numbers the way they were before the raffle existed.

The thing to understand here, is that in a video game like this where there's so many types of items and so much storage available to everyone - people will hoard items regardless of pretty much any incentive we offer. The destash raffle has helped a lot, but there's just no stopping folks hanging onto useless stuff for no real reason. It's just gonna happen.
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GrundyGolem
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by GrundyGolem »

custom houses and huge storage was the appeal that this game has over any other game still to date on the market they have never been able to replicate the storage and custom housing the way one of the original games has done. Thats one of the greatest lures to the game.

I am happy to learn what I am about destash because I didn't understand it basically the other posts I have done in this thread have explained how I perceived how it was being used and if its working good that is great and now I know how its functioning thank you for taking the time to explain this all to me .
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tiggerjlk
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by tiggerjlk »

And no biggie at all, but in the paragon loot chest (for the musical instruments and such) I dropped in a harp, and it said I had 3 more items. I dropped in a Lute, and it said I had 3 more items.

Again, no big deal!

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Alex
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Alex »

Most likely because they are different items. Its not any paragon item, but it must be of the same kind.
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tiggerjlk
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by tiggerjlk »

ahh yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking since they were musical instruments, they would count together. Now I have to try to find 3 more lutes and harps.
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Alex »

yeah, that applies to all items. they are all unique. I even believe (I may be wrong) but loom deeds all need to be of the same color (maybe even same direction?!).
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Terra »

Previous raffle was for doom arts, grave digging items and one more thing if don't remember wrong. For a person who do not goes in Doom, do not dig graves, participating in such raffle will be impossible if not having old tickets. Someone holding tickets is not him manipulating the system(while he does not even knowing the "how should be" reasoning in the system), but him making savings to spend them on a time he feel like it or/and he have nothing to use to get new tickets. Having "the system" work the way the last raffle worked(with opened few gates) mean many or all tickets were "deleted" before the "transition period" even started, which means this -is not- transition period.

I haven't spend my tickets not cos i was manipulating anything or wanted to do so! One reason for me not using my old tickets was not knowing what will be the next raffle(like i said if there are opened few gates for items i don't get mean i will be not able to participate in it). Another reason is i did not felt the big reward needed to spend(and get higher chance) all my tickets for it. Spending 5 tickets for the participation reward and minimal chance for the big reward were good enough for me and it seems not only for me. This way i hold on those tickets to have a higher chance for a raffle reward i would like to get. And now that seems to be wrong and bad?! I cant see how that is wrong/bad or manipulating the system. Manipulating the system is if those people got the items they used illegally... If someone is getting his items AFK or any other illegal way i can't currently imagine and this way "manipulating" the system - hunt him down. Spending those items on previous raffles means getting tickets while its possible, cos the next raffle may be impossible to get(as it worked for some time). And holding onto one ticket is way better than holding onto x25 or x30+ items.

Lets say there is an item which will be "badly" wanted by the whole shard. And there are 3-5 people entering with big chunk of tickets, and many entering with only 1. This does not mean that someone from those 3-5 people will get the rewards as we all know it(example is the first raffle). This mean those people who haven't spend their tickets for a greater chance previous times will have this extra chance now. And the tickets are gone. Now lets imagine the raffle hold an item everyone will want but there are open only grave digging, Doom items and Tokuno major arts to trash. That mean people who do not hunt 24/7 in Doom or Tokuno, or do not do grave digging will be unable to even participate in this raffle. And the chance of getting one items several times is rly low. That is just for the partial ticket.
And while the system is made to spend 5-10 or even more from one item to get a part ticket, x5 to get full, x5 to get participation reward, this means some people will be "banned" from some raffles. If there are opened only specific gates - only specific people will participate in those raffles. I doubt someone will start doing something (with vague chance of success) he has not doing it before just for the raffle. If there are all gates opened and tickets deleted after each raffle, people will hold onto the items itself(which is already happening). And when someone want higher chance of getting the reward he will spend his items when he wants to.
It's just like the lottery. U buy single ticket or u buy lots, or u don't buy. It's up to everyone to decide. If u don't spend any money on the lottery this month and spend lots of money next month, that does not mean u manipulate the lottery, does it?
So we can look at the tickets used in the raffle as another type of currency. And deleting the old currency just cos it's old is not right. If tickets are not "bought" now to have currency(items) tomorrow, will there a deletion of the items start?

I thought that was a raffle for people to remove lots of "junk"(not rly valuable items) they hold, to participate in a game to get a currently unique vanity item. And from destash(as it started) the raffle go to "pile up junk" now days. 100 000 items spend in first raffle are now replaces with probably 200 000 more not spend and held for the next raffle and many more will be stashed for eventual participation in a raffle. And it lose its meaning... Am i wrong?
(Having myself as example - i had items for couple of tickets for the first raffle. during the raffle i got several/pack more, now i have items for lots more tickets.)
That's why i made suggestion about the destash system - specific currency reward for each item destashed; different values for diff items; buying the tickets with that currency and so on. This way u don't have to get 6x Swords of prosperity to get a part ticket, but u will get lets say 5 points(currency) to be able to spend them on the 150 points cost ticket(6x5 x5). Of course this example as a value is not right. The start must be the lower value item - seeds(if i'm not wrong). And from there its easy to calculate the value for each item depending on the quantity needed for a ticket. And this way i'm sure everyone here will trash the items as soon as they get it.
But if the unspend currency is lost, why even get it in first place? Its better to pile up junk.

I don't understand how is the holding onto tickets is bad or manipulating something(which will be holding onto items from now on). This will not make me get more or less of them. Before the destash raffle started i had small amount of items i could use in the destash and i was not getting any extra. Now (aside from the tickets) i have lots of items i can use, but as the system works now i will not use them to get tickets. In fact i will probably pile up the low quantity(or nonexistent) junk stashes i have now, just to be able to participate in a raffle some time in the future. And it seems others will do the same.
If the system is changed to trash only few specific items at current raffle, this will not make the players hunt mobs in Doom, or Tokuno, or to dig graves, or to kill champs, or to craft if they don't feel like it. And this will discriminate the player base - cos one like to hunt in Doom, another to kill champs, another to craft, but some will not be able to participate in the raffle just cos the stuff they like to do provide them with useless junk few months. But they have to collect this junk cos next few months they will be able to spend them.
And this discrimination is bad. Am i wrong?

Those are some of my thoughts traslated for u with my bad english and poor english vocabulary. Maybe i haven't used the correct words in some sentences, but i hope u understand me.
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+Requiem
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by +Requiem »

If u don't spend any money on the lottery this month and spend lots of money next month, that does not mean u manipulate the lottery, does it?
Using your example of a lottery ticket, if you purchase a lottery ticket for this lottery and don't win, you can't re-use it in the next one. If you purchase a ticket in Trinsic for 10,000 gold for a chance to win a huge bag of holding, and don't win it, you don't get your 10,000 gold back, and can't re-use it for whatever the next item is. The same thing applies here.

[/quote]
But if the unspend currency is lost, why even get it in first place? Its better to pile up junk.
[/quote]

Why? What good does the junk do you? I collect it too, and I still don't understand why. Maybe we are all pack-rats / hoarders at heart, hoping that someday, it might come in handy.
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Alex »

+Requiem wrote:Using your example of a lottery ticket, if you purchase a lottery ticket for this lottery and don't win, you can't re-use it in the next one. If you purchase a ticket in Trinsic for 10,000 gold for a chance to win a huge bag of holding, and don't win it, you don't get your 10,000 gold back, and can't re-use it for whatever the next item is. The same thing applies here.
I don't see it where in his writing it says that he should get his money back or reuse it. I think he is simply saying that if he participates or if he doesn't participate, none of them are manipulating the raffle. I am just paraphrasing, not opinionating, but lets stick to the facts and not put words in his mouth. It's pretty clear from the context of the text.
+Requiem wrote:As I see it, the point of the raffle is to remove things from the game. When you buy tickets in the trinsic raffles, your gold doesn't keep carrying over until you win something, so why should it be different for these raffles?
Similar to your yesterday's post, no where did I say that money or tickets should carry over until I win something. In fact, I was talking about not submitting them at all (but holding on to them) so in theory my chances of winning would be 0% or submitting 5 and having a 0.8% chance (5/400) of winning. Again, trying to put words into my mouth that were clearly not said.

Nyx was very thorough with her explanation and it shed light on the situation since she (and only she I believe) possesses the holistic view on the destash and its dynamic. Her rationale made sense, and of course any changes will not affect anybody's participation, there are always alternatives, and if all fails people there are always ppl willing to sell items for destash. I fully accept her change given the rationale (although it was not what I wanted to hear).

Anyways, I thought your posts yesterday towards me were demeaning. I think, had Nyx commented directly we could have saved eachother's time for better things than ranting on the forums which resulted in nothing meaningful. Like I tell my ppl in the company, focus on what you know and not on what you think you know. Saves time and effort. No disrespect, just my opinion.
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+Requiem
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by +Requiem »

Alex, I in no way meant to disrespect or demean you, and I am sorry you feel/felt that way.
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Alex »

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. You have been very helpful to me many times in the game with my requests.
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+Nyx
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by +Nyx »

Terra, you should read the entire thread before posting - I've already covered in previous posts why it's not really causing people to hoard more items than they would otherwise.

If you opt to hang onto your items instead of destashing them now, that's fine, but most players were not working the raffle the way you, alex, and another person were. Meaning this change affects basically nobody except you 3, there won't be some 200,000 items stored up as you've speculated. Pretty much everybody else will continue to participate in the destash raffle the same way they have before.

You seem to think this change is some sort of punishment against you few people who were doing this, but it isn't. This was essentially an investment you folks made in potentially manipulating/participating in future raffles which turned out not to have been a good strategy. Y'all took that risk onto your own shoulders by opting to do it this way, knowing that the raffle has changed every time it's run and that there was a chance it could change in a way that would affect your ability to do this. You made that choice, and my implementing a change negated that strategy but is in no way a punishment toward the few of you doing this. It's simply a change to an ever-changing raffle. I've already stated that if the majority of the participants had been doing this, I would've implemented the change differently. But since it was a small portion of participants, it wouldn't really have been right to have you 3-ish folks dump your relatively large numbers of tickets for a last hurrah and very likely affect the outcome of this raffle. It's akin to cheating in my eyes, and I'm just not going to do it regardless of anyone's feelings on the matter.

It also really just irks me that we've got a few vet players as essentially the only folks affected by this change, who have plenty of time and money in the game, complaining because they can't use their old raffle tickets to continue participating in a raffle based on items they sunk 6+ months ago; instead of making a new raffle strategy based around either obtaining the items they want - because it's easy for them to do so with their gear - or purchasing the items from others with their oodles o' gold. A couple times each of you have behaved as if this somehow prevents you from participating in the raffle because you don't generally farm gauntlet, or do BODs, or whatever the case may be. Y'all have by far the easiest time obtaining these destash items if you so choose to. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from obtaining these items, and seeing vets acting victimized and excluded by this change is just a bit baffling.

Requiem is correct - people hang onto items for no reason whatsoever, other than that it's human nature to do so, especially in a video game where storing thousands upon thousands of items is extremely easy. If I were to run the raffle one time per year, or to say that the raffle will no longer be run at all - people will still hoard those items in huge numbers - because they'll hope the raffle will come back, or something like it will take its place someday. People hoarded these items when there was zero hope of ever being a use for them. Now that there has been a use for them, it won't matter what changes I make for this raffle. Some folks will hoard them until a raffle comes up that they wanna participate in - and the items are still being deleted faster than they woulda been otherwise. Some will do what 95% of the participants have been doing this entire time - submit their destash items as they get them and hope they win the raffle. I don't really care if people are only submitting their items to 1-2 raffles a year. The items are still getting deleted at a much faster pace than they ever would have before this raffle existed. It is still destashing, even if it isn't destashing every applicable item from every participant every time.

the tl;dr version is this:
- The tickets change is staying. No need to continue ranting about it, as my mind is made up
- Future raffles will be tweaked to account for this change, based on the data I gather from this raffle. All items will likely keep being accepted into every raffle, and partial tickets may begin rolling over across multiple raffles again, for example.
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Terra »

+Requiem wrote: Using your example of a lottery ticket, if you purchase a lottery ticket for this lottery and don't win, you can't re-use it in the next one. If you purchase a ticket in Trinsic for 10,000 gold for a chance to win a huge bag of holding, and don't win it, you don't get your 10,000 gold back, and can't re-use it for whatever the next item is. The same thing applies here.
I guess my bad english is the issue here. I never said anything about the destash tickets used in the raffle. I was talking abot the tickets "bought" but not used in the raffle. From my point of view is changing one currency to another with higher value in less quantity. If i buy a ticket for the Trinsic raffle i spend gold. Lets say i get this gold by selling (to a NPC vendor for example) a lot of items. So i spend 100's of items to get 1 pile of gold. Now i have one pile of gold(destash ticket) i can spend on the raffle, but i decide not to spend it and to keep it for the next one. If i don't spend it now i reduce mi chances of winning now, but i don't lose the pile itself cos it's collected this month. And when i spend it with a lot more tickets next month i increase my next month chances of winning.
For me is more convenient to have 1 item than 100 items with the value of that single item. Same with the previous unused tickets. Is more convenient to have 1 ticket than to have 25-30+ items. Or it was like that before the changes which made those tickets worth nothing.
I will keep those destash items now, rather to make them into tickets i could not use in the future.
Thank u!

PS. Also for a person who does not hunt/craft for those destash items specifically, participating for the better reward - 50+ tickets is possible only if he hold onto his tickets and use them when get enough of them.
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Re: September Destash Raffle

Post by Alex »

Terra wrote:PS. Also for a person who does not hunt/craft for those destash items specifically, participating for the better reward - 50+ tickets is possible only if he hold onto his tickets and use them when get enough of them.
This ship has sailed, as Nyx said in her last post at the bottom "The tickets change is staying. No need to continue ranting about it, as my mind is made up". You can always buy destash items from newer players or vendors. Where there is a will there is a way.

On another note, I didn't want to bump an old thread but are you still considering adding additional items to the Destash item list? I just looked at my hoarded house collection and think there are a few items worth considering, which I think other players may have hoarded too.
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