Tailoring revamp

User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

definitely fair, there is a few place in the menu that make you go ??? going through those items made me stumble onto the search, which is a little foggy as to its purpose until you use it.

I think it may have been in Wil's list as well, but it bears repeating. The thing I find the most UI weird is the quantity to make dialog, I mean I know how it works now, but a purple up arrow to switch it to all, and an X (which users expect means close) to turn it back, I am not sure is ideal. couldn't it just be a one button toggle?

A small one I noticed, now that you can make to bags, if you are on a list of items that is multiple pages, the buttons to switch pages share the same space as the craft to bag button.

I know Pheobe has mentioned she wishes the default conditions for mark items and color items was on, so you could toggle it off if you needed to, that makes sense to me (for more than marital bliss reasons) seems like the default player use case.

Thats true of any sort of ui wireframe I guess all we can do is use it and find things, its a bit of a collective experiment in social beta testing. In an ideal scenario everything would be tested by 15 QA guys before seeing the shard, sadly this isn't crowdfunded or payed out the arm like a development house, all things considered the limited manpower, the finicky codebase that everything is being inserted to.. not bad, and it can only get better.

these are all subject to my own preferences etc, it's nice that anyone gives enough of a toss in this day and age to make anything for this game.
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
+Arden
Elder Scribe
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

The craft to bag button and text will get moved so they don't collide with the page buttons,
as for the blue disc button on the amount picker that inputs the amount you enter since ultima needs a gump button press to save something in this case the number you enter, the up arrow and the x is there because we dont have a small enough all button, since we are limited to the gump graphics we have and can only use the ones that new players(or people who dont patch the client) can see.
As for the gold disc i presume youre thinking about the one on recipes requiring leather every resource has a color assigned to it so you can see that you need leather, ingots, ores, granites straight from the main menu

hope this answered some of your questions, as for the up arrow and x button suggestions are appreciated as always :D
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

+Arden wrote:The craft to bag button and text will get moved so they don't collide with the page buttons,
as for the blue disc button on the amount picker that inputs the amount you enter since ultima needs a gump button press to save something in this case the number you enter, the up arrow and the x is there because we dont have a small enough all button, since we are limited to the gump graphics we have and can only use the ones that new players(or people who dont patch the client) can see.


The gump button press thing didn't consider that, not like we have 2 way binding for a client side field hehhe.. I think what you said about gump graphics speaks to alot of the challenges all of you face including +n +v +q etc all of you. Sometimes the palette doesn't have all the right colors for your painting.
+Arden wrote: As for the gold disc i presume youre thinking about the one on recipes requiring leather every resource has a color assigned to it so you can see that you need leather, ingots, ores, granites straight from the main menu
very cool, now my question is , will there be some sort of label, or legend somewhere to convert the 8x8 pixel icons intended to make this all clear, into something people can learn, ie: green is for ________
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
+Arden
Elder Scribe
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

Thats a good idea but gotta get the space needed for that legend, for now its pretty straight forward but i guess you have to notice it

https://prnt.sc/ftuebd
https://prnt.sc/ftuef0

could make the thing a button and display the legend for all colors, but..... the client does not allow colored buttons so its tricky making them will find some way to get this implemented tho.
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

hmmm well hey I am sure the shard doesn't want to read this but.. borrow from another space

the web and android are terrible platforms for ui, and alot of things have to be tricked into operation.

not sure if you have ever tried to make a hamburger menu in straight vanilla javascript but the same concept you could likely adapt for uo.

in that event I had no ability to capture a menu button click, so I had an invisible button that had 2 states (checkbox) wasn't visible to the end user but it performed the toggle functionality, again haven't played with uogumps ever much, and recognizing the limits, if you can't recolor buttons, can you make them 0% opacity and occupy the same space? essentially on any platform where I encounter similar ui limitations I will do something like that, lay an invisible button to handle the action, and have a cosmetic dummy button that does the intended display
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
+Arden
Elder Scribe
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

Oh don't worry we do the exact same thing :D it just takes time away from other things, also did i mention that gumps have a limit on how much you can dispay at once :D if you go over that (and its not much of a limit) it crashes clients :D

but will add the legend on the buttons under my TODO list for sometime in the future
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

wicked figured there was a mechanism and yes.. I refer to stuff like that as a "Kludge" it works, but shouldn't have to

but when you get discouraged about things within this game, remember I am referring to a ui sandbox created by a team of developers that numbers into the hundreds, yet the Kludge remains. Its a sad reality of ui/ux development due to the moving parts etc, there will ALWAYS be something missed, that works weird, etc etc etc. Its one of the places in the universe that illustrates "nobody's perfect" better than any other.

so having said that guys there is 2 of ya, a closed codebase etc etc... although I sound terse, critical more often than not, its just how I talk, and hopefully in some measure the sentiment of "good job keep going" is there.

Is it perfect yet? not quite.
Is it better than most Ui/Ux at this stage of development, well yeah.. in this amount of time, in most cases it would be completely messed, broken, and barely at the point of hitting a test server. That is with a full team.
so definitely... good job keep it going
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
+Arden
Elder Scribe
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

Thank you for the kind words :)

http://prntscr.com/ftuqdx
just a view of how the menu looks if you add most resources to it :D the discs start to make sense
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

definitely they do in that case, I like the legend too though looks good, with that middle item list I bet you could slice a few lines out of it and autosolve the page/bagbutton thing not to mention if it does pages, it doesn't need to be as big, and could "kawaii" up the size of it all make it cuter
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
zatheran
Apprentice Scribe
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by zatheran »

Just a bug note since the restart. I mentioned this in chat, but I don't know if +C is still online.

EDITED: I made some synthetic studded dos -- the leather name of the dos does not include the type of leather (ie: synthetic studded leather dos); there is just a blank space. After I cut them back down, regular-looking leather is produced instead of synthetic leather, although the regular-looking leather is labeled synthetic.

Cheers
Last edited by zatheran on Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Wil
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 1128
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Wil »

+Arden wrote:The craft to bag button and text will get moved so they don't collide with the page buttons,
as for the blue disc button on the amount picker that inputs the amount you enter since ultima needs a gump button press to save something in this case the number you enter, the up arrow and the x is there because we dont have a small enough all button, since we are limited to the gump graphics we have and can only use the ones that new players(or people who dont patch the client) can see.
As for the gold disc i presume youre thinking about the one on recipes requiring leather every resource has a color assigned to it so you can see that you need leather, ingots, ores, granites straight from the main menu

hope this answered some of your questions, as for the up arrow and x button suggestions are appreciated as always :D
Howdy,

Suppose:

In the top box, put the word "Filter:" beside the box. Then it'd be obvious what it does.

Also, a filter would be much more useful in conjunction with an "All" category.

In the list, use the standard down-swinging right-arrow button that every other gump in the system uses to mean "do something" to the right of the text and remove the hammer/scroll icon. That would make the UI consistent with the rest of the game's UI which goes a long way towards helping the user understand what to do. If it makes the pretty scroll look bad then move the left edge of the scroll to the right and put the stack of buttons out in the gray area. Still mentally connected.

When the blue button is clicked, output the text "quantity to make set to XXX." Feedback lets the user know what happened as a result of an experimental click.

Regards,
Wil
User avatar
Wil
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 1128
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Wil »

Wil wrote:In the list, use the standard down-swinging right-arrow button that every other gump in the system uses to mean "do something" to the right of the text and remove the hammer/scroll icon. That would make the UI consistent with the rest of the game's UI which goes a long way towards helping the user understand what to do. If it makes the pretty scroll look bad then move the left edge of the scroll to the right and put the stack of buttons out in the gray area. Still mentally connected.
Or use the radio buttons from the Player->Options->Pop-up-help gump to select which item to tailor and then a do-something right-arrow beside amount to craft to initiate crafting, obviating the need for a set-quantity button altogether.
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

Wil wrote:
Wil wrote:In the list, use the standard down-swinging right-arrow button that every other gump in the system uses to mean "do something" to the right of the text and remove the hammer/scroll icon. That would make the UI consistent with the rest of the game's UI which goes a long way towards helping the user understand what to do. If it makes the pretty scroll look bad then move the left edge of the scroll to the right and put the stack of buttons out in the gray area. Still mentally connected.
Or use the radio buttons from the Player->Options->Pop-up-help gump to select which item to tailor and then a do-something right-arrow beside amount to craft to initiate crafting, obviating the need for a set-quantity button altogether.
agreement is so so much easier...
second all of that 100%.

Mainly because it follows the design language of the client much closer, and it streamlines the menu, in many respects i love the system behind the new gumps more than the colorscheme, and the colors/transparencies of the gump from the old system, were very very functional at helping to maintain focus, on the gameplay screen.

Yoda's Nit Picky Thingie List (this is all opinion and is meant in the spirit of constructive happy stuff):

On The Left Menu, the sub menu items would be clearer that they were sub menus if they were slightly indented or centered below the main menu items, since they are all the same color.

The center section. Id be perfectly happy with what Wil described, but my initial thoughts, although slightly different, covered the same issue, there is often redundancies within a gump that make less clear than it should be.

The filter section is a good example of this
as it is now it looks like so

(gem) textbox (x) on textbox it would read better perhaps somewhat like this
Label: Textbox (gem for button/go) (x) to the right of checkbox or some sort of filter toggle. it would fit the same space and at least to me. be much easier to read (opinion =)

now that the resource disc is explained I like it alot, but again each line has alot of buttons, sort of how Wil was suggesting but the other way around, rather than have an individual make/quantity for each. Use the bottom quantity/all dialog (it makes sense to me because visually, it is in the location for "total" as typically seen on an invoice), consolodate the making controls to one place per gump, cleaning up the item type listing, gives room to list all resources required by multi ingredient items in the space freed up by not having self contained buttons, the trick being they need to hilite much the same way the sub menu items do.

consolodating it this way first on this level menu, and then for individual item requirements on its make (the make now and the quantity button can both have their function performed by just the quantity/all dialog.

doing it in this way, means the blue gem becomes the make button, and alieviates the entire "needs to be there to enter the quantity thing" since, whatever you typed is entered/saved as you make

the last thing, the status journal, I question the use of the scroll graphic, being that it is one piece and has the gem to resize and the - to remove, and does neither, plus it sticks out beyond the edge of the whole gump with a bit of less than antialiased matting

all opinions all in the spirit of being incredible
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
User avatar
Yoda
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by Yoda »

missed Wil's first part A for a second but yeah
Wil wrote: Suppose:

In the top box, put the word "Filter:" beside the box. Then it'd be obvious what it does.

Also, a filter would be much more useful in conjunction with an "All" category.
similar point to mine, didn't dive deep enuff to catch an ALL for the main menu (good ui/ux 101).
Wil wrote: When the blue button is clicked, output the text "quantity to make set to XXX." Feedback lets the user know what happened as a result of an experimental click.

Regards,
Wil
this is a super important point, that goes way further than just this instance, compared to stock there is a distinct lack of tooltips, text that acts as feedback for an action is always important. and even little details, like placeholder text in fields that wipes once you start typing "search for an item" etc. but .. mid development system, it will keep getting better

last opinion I promise...
when a make action is initiated, don't display the main crafting gump, hide it and leave just the make que going, you can't do anything in the gump without making it "interrupted" and there is no sense hiding the colorful world/gameplay window if this is the case. have it re open when the make que closes, this I am certain was in the original game as a concious design decision for this very reason, no visible button to click, no scripty hammering requiring "interrupted" thingy.. less stuff to code etc happy day for all
Guildmaster: JDI - Est 2011
+Arden
Elder Scribe
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring revamp

Post by +Arden »

zatheran wrote:Just a bug note since the restart. I mentioned this in chat, but I don't know if +C is still online.

EDITED: I made some synthetic studded dos -- the leather name of the dos does not include the type of leather (ie: synthetic studded leather dos); there is just a blank space. After I cut them back down, regular-looking leather is produced instead of synthetic leather, although the regular-looking leather is labeled synthetic.

Cheers
Looked at it, this happens if you cut items that have been crafted with retain color set to off, the leather is still the right type tho, im make a fix asap.
Post Reply