wax refiner

[lnickos]

Nyx, you bring up two concerns: the difficulty in enforcing potential abuses of machines and the effect it has on the economy. I too have concerns about those two issues but I also have a potential solution against potential abuse of the machines that will also save GM time.

Solution to potential abuse
Instead of allowing players to insert machine coal in any amount, allow only a specific randomly-generated number of coals to be inserted each time from a range that provides enough fuel for anywhere between 2 hours to 3 hours, so maybe 200 to 300 coals inputed. Since one of the +'s stated earlier that the machine might be implemented with a coal limit, it could be used in conjunction with this random number generator so that a maximum of 300 coals can be in the machine at any time. This will prevent people from simply inputting two loads of coal for fueling 4 to 6 hours. Overall, this should eliminate the need for GMs to manually AFK-check potential machine abusers. Not sure how hard it will be to do this, but I see random red dots on beehive gumps so I figure something of the random-sort can be implemented.

[+Nyx]

Nyx, you bring up two concerns: the difficulty in enforcing potential abuses of machines and the effect it has on the economy. I too have concerns about those two issues but I also have a potential solution against potential abuse of the machines that will also save GM time.

Solution to potential abuse
Instead of allowing players to insert machine coal in any amount, allow only a specific randomly-generated number of coals to be inserted each time from a range that provides enough fuel for anywhere between 2 hours to 3 hours, so maybe 200 to 300 coals inputed. Since one of the +'s stated earlier that the machine might be implemented with a coal limit, it could be used in conjunction with this random number generator so that a maximum of 300 coals can be in the machine at any time. This will prevent people from simply inputting two loads of coal for fueling 4 to 6 hours. Overall, this should eliminate the need for GMs to manually AFK-check potential machine abusers. Not sure how hard it will be to do this, but I see random red dots on beehive gumps so I figure something of the random-sort can be implemented.

I think your idea is creative and interesting, but I'd be concerned that it would still be easy to script (not necessarily filling it the full amount, but filling it the minimum amount, more frequently). I don't claim to have the perfect solution, but I strongly believe the machines need some maluses involved in their use so that their long-term effect on the economy of the shard isn't horrific lol

[patrix]

Oh no not more coal powered machines. What about the environment?

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[+Nyx]

Oh no not more coal powered machines. What about the environment?

cough cough.jpg

[dreamstalker]

when i showed my daughter the new "Coal machine" the very first thing she said was " hey thats just like on minecraft" lol go figure

[lestatzero]

The suggestion I would have on this would be to come up with what you as the staff would consider to be an acceptable max duration for running the machine or max daily production and then force it to have a cool down period. With that Allow only 1 machine of that type per account. The leveling system that you have in place with the unit can also be tied to accept other resources to slightly alter that maximum duration or the cool down period and production thus overtime eliminating the need to buy other machines anyway but still always having a daily production limit when used in automatic mode. I would also make them account bound so that people can't sell / trade pre leveled machines. But that would stop all scripts from taking advantage of the afk rule. When players use it in the manual mode then remove the limit and have it subject to all the regular afk gathering rules.


Just an

[Versales]

I don't know how viable this would be but:

What if along with the random number generator that was suggested, there were some sort of automated AFK check when reloading the machine on a long cool down. Something like you put in your X# of coal and then when the time expires you go to reload up pops the AFK check, and if you fail the AFK check then the machine is placed on a sleep-mode lasting x# of hours. That way though someone might try to circumvent the rules by somehow beating an auto AFK check they are still in blatant violation of the rules. This allows a user to start up one load before bed, and then return in the morning to the AFK check then reload their machine and go to work. Come back during their lunch hour and do their AFK check and reload etc etc etc. Any cheaters out there would still be subjected to jail time, and possibly confiscation of their machines/resources/profits.

Note* the AFK check would need to be untimed, and just some sort of pop-up that stops the machine from being loaded until addressed. This would allow for users to still operate their machine AFK yet still place some sort of stop-gap from full non-stop automation.

[+Colibri]

I did consider the AFK check as well, but no matter how complex it is, someone will eventually script it and so it's back to square one. Or well, once it gets complex enough, it becomes a frustration for non-macroing players.

And overall catching actions infrequent quick actions (such as just clicking a button once per hour) is impossible to "bring to court". Let's say, if we are notified when someone loads up a machine, and we go there immediately to do a manual check, that player might have already left the screen - and we can't know if that action was scripted or done by hand.

[patrix]

Question from a possible Luddite.
I don't really understand why Excelsior is going down the path of creating machines that do tasks that weren't that difficult to do manually. If it is for efficiency [as in less time spent by the player] then increasing the amount wax pots could hold would work just as well.
Is it for novelty reasons and providing players with a richer experience? From the comments so far I'm not sure it is going to meet that criteria and it appears to be creating AFK monitoring dilemmas.

I have always liked the fact that UO is based on agrarian, pre-industrial economies, no guns, minimal automation etc. It provides me with an escape from the everyday realities of the consequences of an industrialised society. I like the mostly clean green landscape of UO and feel somewhat perturbed at the introduction of coal burning machinery which conjures up images of a polluted and non sustainable environment.

Michi

[+Nyx]

The machine idea was something that +C and +A branched off from the brewing stuff I needed for Elysium.

I wanted to implement a brewing system that was highly customizable for the player. You would be able to make wine, ale, various liquors, even completely custom flavored alcoholic beverages. You would use things like a malting mill, a still, a fermentation vessel, a grape press, an aging cask and so on to process and create these beverages. You would then receive a keg of whatever beverage you made, which you could distribute into bottles or glasses, and which would give you a buff upon drinking. It was my intention for these "machines" to be located in the brewing shops in towns around Elysium, so you would have to be friendly with a faction who had a brew shop in order to make your own beverages. Eventually (I roughly estimated a year or so after elysium opened), I would have made them available to players as an addon for their home, as part of a very long quest line (or otherwise quite difficult to get).

So, I needed those things added - the malting mill, still, etc. We decided how these would work, what the player experience with the gump would be like, what kind of delays for the fermentation process and all that jazz. From there, it seems to have branched out into adding machines for all the crafting systems, and here we are.

[patrix]

Thanks for the explanation +N.
I must say i like your plans for brewing and being able to make buffs. It extends the concepts around growing plants and processing [cooking] them for other purposes.

I could make a comment about 'boys and their toys' but I might get smacked..
OOPS

Regards
Dead Michi

[+Nyx]

I could make a comment about 'boys and their toys' but I might get smacked..
OOPS

or about scientific-minded folks and how just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done? heheheh

I'm excited about the cooking and brewing as well. They will both tie in heavily with the elysium crops system, so you will eventually be able to grow the grapes you'll then make into wine, or grow the pears to flavor your brandy and the berries to flavor your cakes, raise and milk the cow/goat for the milk for your soup and so on and so forth. *squee*

[patrix]

or about scientific-minded folks and how just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done? heheheh

Yes! I had that thought as well, hence my original question as to 'Why is this happening on Exclesior.'

[+Nyx]

or about scientific-minded folks and how just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done? heheheh

Yes! I had that thought as well, hence my original question as to 'Why is this happening on Exclesior.'

makes me think of when I saw some youtube videos of scientists teaching robots how to climb walls and stuff and I was sitting there all:

[+Colibri]

I could make a comment about 'boys and their toys' but I might get smacked..
OOPS

Not to worry, I wouldnt smack you. If I just dismissed the argument you made in your post, or dismissed you completely by saying that this is a custom shard, or that you're off topic, then next time when you didn't like something you probably wouldn't bother to post. And we need a full spectrum of inputs to get a clear picture.